What is your thought on carnivorous plants?
SO my husband bought my son a venus fly trap at a local fair. I have to say it is super weird, like vegan-freaky to watch a plant eat an animal (well, bug). Have you ever done this? It literally opens its "mouth" and snaps it up!
I am not sure how I feel about this! I sort of made a rule that they could only feed it bugs that were inside and could not take bugs out of the natural state outside and bring them in for food. I stlll felt a little sorry for the inside flies. Usually I try to scoop up the inside bugs and let them free outside. My vegan son's response to my silliness was that "the plant needs to eat too!"
Should I be raising our venus fly trap to be a vegan?? ;D ;D ;D ;)
In a weird way, I also felt like it was a small symbol of herbivores getting revenge on carnivores. I can't really explain what I mean by that-maybe you just have to feed a venus fly trap to experience the weirdness. Its like living a Bizarro cartoon in a way.
The whole plant thread got me thinking to post this.
On a side note, I felt HORRIBLE when we ripped out our hideous old shrubs from the front of the house that had probably been there 30 years. They were still alive and I felt really bad for them when they were sitting out by the driveway waiting to be picked up and brought to their "graves". They were ugly though, and blocked all the light in to the windows. We planted a pretty flower garden in their place.
Ok, I think I just ruined my reputation for being a sane vegweb member with this post! :o
I've never thought along those lines, to be honest with you. I think animals eating one another is quite natural, and normal. A venus fly trap falls into the category of natural for me. It's a whole food chain, each species connected to one another. I'm not at all bothered by it, and would never go campaign veganism in front of a hungry lion. ;)
Humans, in their approach to food are the unnatural ones. Shame on us!
I majored in biology - grad and undergrad - so I try to "think" plant thoughts and animal thoughts when encountering the species. As opposed to projecting my feelings onto them.
I think Venus fly traps are SO cool, by the way. I am jealous of your son now. Take good care of it ... they're awesome. :) My dream is to see a huge one, like the kind that can chomp up a human! Maybe I can watch it eat something large. Not that I am a sadist ... but I love observing nature in its element. There is something so powerful, so primitive, so absolutely terryfing and horrible, and yet beautiful all at the same time.
There is something so powerful, so primitive, so absolutely terryfing and horrible, and yet beautiful all at the same time.
YES! Well put!
I think it's a natural cycle. Just like all of the flys that die on my windowsill.
I can't remember what it is, but there's this thing that has a circle shape in it. When a worm wiggles through the circle, whatever-it-is clamps down on the worm and ingests it while the worm is still alive. Really disgusting, but a part of the natural world. People "raise" and kill animals in a quite unnatural way.
I agree. Some animals were made to eat meat (and in this case, plants were made to eat meat!) so we can't deprive them of their natural state because of our beliefs. Let your fly trap eat to it's heart's desire and enjoy your new bug-free home!
It's actually better to let your plant catch its own food than to feed it:
http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2200.html
The "naturalness" argument bakes no bread for me... I mean, it's natural for animals to die in a volcano eruption, or a natural forest fire (not caused by humans); but I would still try to save those animals if I could. More than that, if the death could easily be prevented -- if you're leaving the volcano in a jeep anyway and the baby chimp (or whatever) is sitting right there -- I think you're morally bound to save the chimp. It'd be wrong to leave it behind. So just because a death is "natural", doesn't mean to me that we have no duty to prevent it. Also I've never bought that humans were "meant" to be vegan or that an omnivorous diet is "unnatural" for us. ("Nature" pretty clearly also furnishes us with murderous emotions sometimes. Nature wants us to do some pretty awful sh!t from time to time -- it's a REALLY poor guide to morality, imo. Show me someone who acts only "naturally" and I'll show you someone whose only place in our society is in a prison cell.)
The forest fire and the flytrap each consume animals, and we certainly should try to help animals escape the former. Does that mean we should help them escape the latter? I don't know. You might say the two situations are different because the flytrap is alive and the fire isn't. That's true, but I'm not sure what difference it makes. I mean, plant lives aren't as valuable as animal lives, morally, right? That's sort of foundational for veganism. So does that mean we should kill the flytrap to save the flies? After all, the flytrap is just a plant, and we vegans kill plants. Not wantonly, not without good reason, for sure; but we HAVE a decent reason here, right? I mean, the plant is killing animals.
I'm not comfortable saying we ought to kill flytraps -- far from it, I don't think we should -- but I also don't see where exactly the reasoning to the contrary goes wrong.
Interesting. I think the opposite. Show me a man who acts in accordance to natural laws and nature, and I'll show you an ethical human being.
Is it unethical to kill for food when a person is hungry? Is it unethical to kill in self defense? Is it unethical to kill for the protection of one's children, either because they need food or someone is trying to physically harm them? (I mean, when there are no other places to get food except in the wild.)
Animals (excluding humans) do all the above. We never label animals as unethical or immoral. They live in accordance to natural law. They act, naturally.
Humans are immoral precisely because they have deviated from natural law. They kill one another for pure sport, due to hate, due to jealousy, etc. They own other living beings from human slaves to the whole industry of domesticated animals which are here to stay. They kill more than they can eat, and waste it. Moreover, when they kill, they do not fight fair. They enslave animals, forcing them to live without dignity, without respect, and then inhumanely allow machines to slaughter them.
The best thing for nature is to interfere in it minimally. So, I would not rescue a monkey from a fire. Why? Because what will I do with that monkey? Put it in a zoo to live its life out behind bars? Set it free once the fire passes? One monkey, alone, without its pack, will die anyway. Put it in a circus for cheap tricks? Keep it as a pet?
It is more humane to allow that monkey to live and die, within the boundaries of its pack, within the boundaries of its wilderness, the way its life intended to play out. The monkey knows only two things: its pack, and its life in the wild. Take those two things away from it, and you have taken away its life. Only it's worse, because the monkey now has to live in a way that goes against its very nature.
My family and I once "rescued" a fawn. It was cold, the poor thing was crying. It must have been seperated from its mom. We took it in for a night, let it go free the next day when the frost had passed.
Later, we read that fawns have no scent to keep predators away. We touched it. Our scent was ALL over it now. By doing this, we condemned the fawn to death. Had we left it alone, chances are it would have found its way back to the mom, or it would have had a fighting chance of survival with no scent on it.
In the realm of domestic animals - it's too late. Humans have got their sticky fingers into it already. Even I'm not immune - I have a cat. It is my moral responsibility to allow whatever animal or plant I own to live as close to its nature as possible. Hence why, every week, I drive up to a local, organic farm and pick up meat for my cat (she's fed a raw meat diet).
I would no more kill a Venus Fly Trap that eats flies than I would my cat. I am responsible for the animals/plants I have tamed, that I own.
Besides that, if it's not a mammal or bird in my home, it gets killed by me anyway (protecting my territory - quite natural). So, a Venus Fly Trap would be quite useful to have around.
Nature is undoubtedly cruel, full of pain and suffering. But, it is also the most amazing, beautiful, powerful, intense thing out there. Ecosystems are set up perfectly in a neverending cycle of life, death, destruction, birth. There is no escaping that cycle - for anyone.
Nature is ultimate freedom. To live in a way that is parallel to the laws of nature is to be free.
The link given by volacious gives info on how to successfully feed dead bugs to the plant (you can use the poor little flies on your windowsill)
Personally, I'm a softy. I would save an anything from an anything else.
Bugs from pool.
Bugs from spider.
Bird from cat.
Bugs from lettuce being washed.
Mosquito about to be swat by roommate.
Hell, I'd save a plant from another plant if they actually ate each other.
The other day while working at my dining commons, I found a fly had flown head-first into the thousand island dressing (I'm still trying to figure out how this happened...). I scooped the little guy up, plopped the dressing in the sink, ran the water, and salvaged the fly with a sponge (he was quite pleased).
Don't ask me if I put the dressing back at the salad bar. ¬_¬...
Humans, in their approach to food are the unnatural ones. Shame on us!
That about sums it up for me. ::) Fascinating discussion on morality and nature going on here.
Yeh, I feed my cats dead cow... I don't like it, but I think it's best for them (and I get evil glares if I feed them the other stuff).
In comparison, I don't think allowing 'domesticated' plants eat bugs is so bad. Besides, they can't eat anything else - if you fertilise carnivorous plants they'll die.
I loves my pet cats and I loves my pet pitcher plants. Carnivorous plants are not only cool 8), but so clever! Yay!