Porn
Posted by ledzepfan12 on Jul 24, 2008 · Member since Jan 2007 · 675 posts
What do you all think of it? I won't lie. I've looked at a fair amount, mostly out of sheer curiosity, "do these girls actually like doing this?" and "guys actually love looking at this stuff" type looking. I really hope real sex isn't like this (I'm a virgin) and that guys don't expect girls to do that type of stuff in real life.
I don't know, I don't want to do my whole rant, because I'm sure most of you will say what I want to rant.
Discuss
Um. Ok.
Sigh.
Sexual freedom and expression is SO important to being a healthy... person. Nude photos can be art - there is such beauty in the human body. I ABSOLUTELY agree with all of that.
A lot of what you're saying, KMK, is great and true, in theory. But in practice? I don't think that's reality. The majority of pornography (at least that I'm aware of) is exploitative in nature. I'm not against pornography (in theory...) but I have serious issues with stuff like this:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/feministing/bmwad.jpg
This is an ad for BMW. It's going too far.
Images we see in the media portray women as objects. As someTHING for men to USE. And isn't that in porn as well? Sexuality has been skewed. Sexuality in our culture is not a healthy thing.
So, to conclude: "pornography" is not inherently bad - it can be art and healthy sexual expression. But, that's not the majority of the porn that's out there.
This is an ad for BMW. It's going too far.
Exactly. This is a car ad. I agree, totally exploitative. But erotica for the sake of erotica is something different.
I think you all need to broaden your idea of pornography! There is a strong movement toward pornography centered on the pleasure of women--it's made for women, by women. Things like that. Again, don't let your concept of "pornography" be so narrow!
Oh, and I'm sure there is someone already typing out all about how wrong I am, I know those are only two girls but I can't imagine that those are the only two girls in the entire porn industry who've gone through those things or feel that way.
http://www.shelleylubben.com/blog/blog.php?bid=25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6WLFr7Kdcs
Edit: I didn't mean for it to sound bitchy or defensive.
Edit #2: I think we all have different ideas as to what porn is. Having sex or doing sex acts on camera is porn to me. Taking nude photos of yourself is just that nude photography. There is a line. On one hand, I love the old pictures of Bettie Page from the '50's and don't think its degrading or exploitative of her at all, since she clearly enjoyed herself and continued for some time. On the other, I think there are definately women who got into porn for one reason and stay for one reason or another, whether or not they enjoy it or not. How many people stay at a job they hate because its the only one they have?
Nude photos is one thing, having sex with many different people at the same time on camera is totally different. And pornstars have sex with people for money. Hookers have sex with people for money. Is that a false statement?
You disapprove of porn. Got it.
Oh, and I'm sure there is someone already typing out all about how wrong I am
No need to get defensive. This is a forum for debate. We are supposed to point out weaknesses in each others' arguments. and disagree with each other. Isn't that why you started this thread?
I think we need a cogent definition of pornography. I am speaking with the idea of pornography as an industry--creating and selling erotic images for the sole purpose of sexual pleasure. Yes, pornographic images pervade all facets of our society. We can talk about both, and both are pornographic. But we just need to be specific for the purposes of discussion. Otherwise we get these blanket generalizations.
The two are similar. When did I say I disapprove of porn? Porn can be done in many ways, I just don't like the kind that outright market they're women as cheap whores. Isn't that what a pimp does?
Oh, and I'm sure there is someone already typing out all about how wrong I am, I know those are only two girls but I can't imagine that those are the only two girls in the entire porn industry who've gone through those things or feel that way.
http://www.shelleylubben.com/blog/blog.php?bid=25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6WLFr7Kdcs
I mean, people have terrible experiences with all types of industries. People have hideous experiences with medical professionals, lawyers, and pretty much every other profession. It means there are inadequacies within an industry which need to be addressed. But anecdotal evidence is hardly enough to say that most women sex workers are exploited, maltreated, or ashamed.
There are ex porn stars now affiliated with anti porn and most, if not all regret having done it and has said that it was not what they expected it to be and tell pretty disgusting stories of what a workday on set is like.
Most if not all regret it? Again, that's a big leap from anecdotal accounts to generalizations about the sentiments of all female sex workers.
I mean, if pornography is not something that feels natural or comfortable to you, then it's not your scene. That's cool. But what's disgusting to you might not be disgusting to others.
Edit #2: I think we all have different ideas as to what porn is. Having sex or doing sex acts on camera is porn to me. Taking nude photos of yourself is just that nude photography. There is a line. On one hand, I love the old pictures of Bettie Page from the '50's and don't think its degrading or exploitative of her at all, since she clearly enjoyed herself and continued for some time. On the other, I think there are definately women who got into porn for one reason and stay for one reason or another, whether or not they enjoy it or not. How many people stay at a job they hate because its the only one they have?
I don't understand. How do you know that Bettie Page was happy and today's sex workers are not? Lots of sex workers today enjoy their work and continue for some time as well.
I don't have a problem with sexuality or the human interest in sex at all as I like to look at naked bodies (attractive ones), I just don't want it up in my face 24/7.
That's something different--using pornography as a marketing tool--and more like what laurabs is talking about. I'm talking about: I go to the store and rent an erotic video to watch in private, for example. Erotica for the sake of erotica. It's confusing to talk about both these things lumped together.
there is a feminist porn "movement" (not sure if this is the right word, but a fraction is pro-sex/porn). as my new favorite movie questions about masculinity, what does it say about masculinity that porn of many varieties (exotic pics to hard core BDSM and beyond) is accepted as a part of our culture?
Which is? I'm looking for some documentaries to add to my Netflix list.
When did I say I disapprove of porn?
I guess I'm getting confused by all of the different directions the discussion is going.
Since it seems like everything I have said is wrong in every way and that I'm apparently a porn hating, sex hating prude with no idea about how anything in the sex industry works at all and even if I try to clarify what I was saying, I'd still be wrong, I hereby remove myself from this thread.
Have fun!
I gotta go work, but I'll be back! (Ahhhnuld voice.)
When did I say I disapprove of porn?
I guess I'm getting confused by all of the different directions the discussion is going.
Yes. I thought we were talking about porn as industry, as in videos, images, etc. Then before I know it we are talking about prostitutes and suggestive clothes on sweatpants tushies. Way too much to digest. All important, but too much at once.
Since it seems like everything I have said is wrong in every way and that I'm apparently a porn hating, sex hating prude with no idea about how anything in the sex industry works at all and even if I try to clarify what I was saying, I'd still be wrong, I hereby remove myself from this thread.
Have fun!
No one said that you were prude, hated sex, or implied that you knew nothing. You asked for our opinion on the Debate Forum. We are debating.
??? We were debating an issue, not attacking anyone, including you. See the honey thread for another example of this.
If you just want casual, guarded chit chat, then it's better to post in the chit chat thread. People are good about knowing not to push too hard there and are less abrasive. That's why this forum is separate--so we can argue without taking it personally.
Not back in but: There is nothing wrong with debate. I'm just getting tired with being the main one debated against. I didn't take anything personally and I'm not offended or anything like that, but I would like to not have to debate against more people on the other side of the debate. If that made any sense.
Edit: Also, I haven't been in an intelligent debate in a long time (since Debate class that I aced about five years ago) so I'm rusty and just a lil' bit intimidated.
Completely personally, I have a problem that porn is used to arouse, and that the person that is doing the arousing is not me. I feel like it points out my inadequacy in a way that I can't possibly do anything about.
ledzepfan,
It seems to me that you are upset about the mistreatment and objectification of women by men.
I think kmk's point is that erotica in general is a fun and healthy expression. I don't think any of us support pornography that would be considered criminal (slavery, pedophilia, etc...)
Completely personally, I have a problem that porn is used to arouse, and that the person that is doing the arousing is not me. I feel like it points out my inadequacy in a way that I can't possibly do anything about.
Again, so that's something that's particular to your style. So pornography wouldn't be something to include in a successful relationship for you. Maybe I like it if my partner is aroused by other people--maybe that is arousing to me--and here it could serve great use for me in this case. So yeah, definitely a personal thing, which is totally well and good.
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