Is horseback riding vegan?
Posted by SnowQueen690 on Jan 16, 2008 · Member since Jun 2005 · 1569 posts
This subject was brought up on another forum I was looking at and it made me wonder. Horses kept as pets need to be ridden for excercise. I am a horseback rider (as if you couldn't tell) and I still consider myself mostly vegan (90% because I am not the best at reading labels and sometimes goof).
What do you think? Can a person be vegan while riding horses?
i don't think it's on the same level as a seeing eye dog, because humans don't need to ride horses. if it was somehow necessary for life, then that may be different. but a blind person may need a seeing eye dog.
for socializing, you can take your horse out without riding her or him. the point is that in horseriding, you are using the horse for fun.
for seeing eye dogs, you are using the dog for sight.
One-size answers don't fit all, for this & many issues!
this sentiment rings very true for me! there is really nothing to gain by simply making a list of things that a vegan can do and another list of things vegans cannot do. being vegan is something that i enact over and over, day in and day out. i never forget that it is a choice i am continuously making. while i have chosen veganism to be a part of the foundation of the ethics i choose to embody, i do not believe it to be something that is unwavering. clearly, the issue of horseback riding is unique in each situation, and by virtue of that unique to each individual. generally, i believe the only thing that remains true in each situation is that a vegan is more likely to consider there to be two individuals involved who must be concerned when a human rides a horse.
so, there is no answer. i actually find it to be a somewhat immature viewpoint to simply state that it is either right or wrong to ride a horse. wouldn't it be just as absurd to ask a horse whether or not s/he finds it moral to carry a human on her journeys?
on a weird note, i really wish my parents would have asked me if i wanted braces. i mean, i know i "neeeded" them, but i would give anything to erase my middle school pictures from my parents scrap book! would a vegan put braces on their kid?!?!?
I wouldn't but that's because I don't know any horses. People and their animals have a special connection and understand each other so I believe that you would know if the horse liked or didn't like to be ridden. It's also very healing both ways, this is especially true for abused and/or neglected horses and people with mental illness, mental trauma and/or developmental disorder. It's good for the horse because after a very long amount of recovery time spent very closely with someone can create a new trust in humans and a very loving bond. It's good for people with mental illness and mental trauma for the same reason and it also gives people who have anxiety issues and/or are loners a friend to create a bond in and is a great learning experience that they can then adopt with humans. Children with some forms of autism have been shown to be able to understand the cues an animal gives over those of humans and thus they learn to adapt these to humans. As a psychology major I come across these types of studies a lot.
On the other hand, the horses that you see at fairs and stuff like that I would not ride. Those are usually "prisoner" type horses that are ridden over and over again and every one of them that I have seen have looked extremely sad. I think for you to ride them, there needs to be a very good bond there.
Interacting with and riding horses are hugely therapeutic for people with disabilties and people who have been through traumatic life situations.
even if it is beneficial to people with disabilities, that doesn't make it ethical nor does it mean there aren't any therapeutic alternatives.
faunablues- Of course there are other theraputic alternatives, but hear my story and read with an open mind;
I have worked with horses all my life; abused and neglected ones that needed nothing more than a loving hand. As the animals under my care regained their strength and overcame their beatings and vices they changed themselves. They were no longer scared of humans, they would approach us for companionship rather than us coming to them. Those that were still young and healthy we began to "gentle" which is a no aggression type of training, using many natural methods that wild horses exhibit in their herds, so they could go to new permanent homes. I've played with stallions that had never been handled kindly before by humans, deeming them "wild". I've laid in the grass on a warm spring day with 5 or 6 horses lazing around me content to just spend time with me. If that isn't heaven on earth than I need to call it quits now.
All that is nice and not to the point but I'll continue; Five years ago three Standardbred mares came to us in the most deplorable conditions but of good weight. They had welts, fly bites, rainrot, thrush, untrimmed hooves and matted manes. They came at the beginning of December and by the fall they were the epitome of health. The following Spring we realized we couldn't take up the space other needy horses could use in our facility with these three young, happy and healthy mares without getting some kind of outside fund. So after receiving the go ahead from our vet (a fellow vegan on the ride-horses-tenderly side), we decided to lease them out to a theraputic facility for mentally handicapped children. Me and my one barn buddy were placed in charge of these girls and would take them over to the riding center every Saturday from 9am to 11am. When we got there the first day we almost left; the children were in terrible states, some running around screaming, others crying and throwing fits. But the minute we unloaded our three mares and lead them into the indoor arena with the aid of the center owner Cindy, the children took on a new attitude and so did our girls.
All the kids came to stand around and marvel at our horses, there was no more crying, no more screaming and no more running. There was I believe 6 students there that day, all with some form of autism from Downs to Aspergers. For the next hour they all took turns learning to groom and got to spend time with the mares. Then at 10 o'clock a special saddle was produced from the tack room and placed on the one mare I called Snippy (due to her unique snip marking on her muzzle). I will never, ever forget that moment. Her ears perked up intently and her eyes took on this new glow that we hadn't seen in a long time. All her attention was on Cindy who was lovingly making sure the girth and saddle was sitting just right so no skin or hair was pulled. She even put a gel pad beneath the saddle overtop of a fleece blanket to absorb shock.
I really began to panic at that moment as no one had attempted to ride Snippy or the other two mares since they arrived at our farm; they were previously sulky racers but had been "broken to ride" (what I like to call despirited *grumble*), but Cindy knew everything would be okay. She has awesome horse sense. I think I chewed off every single nail as I lead Snippy around the large sandy ring for the first time with a saddle on her back in the year and a half we had her. Then we lined her up with a large mounting block that was designed with railings so the child and an aid could climb up almost flush to any 15 to 16hh horse's back. Snippy was curious about the contraption but only sniffed it once before stepping right along side of it without me even asking. I think I peed a little, haha! Then came the moment I had been dreading.
The first to climb aboard was a young boy named Nick who suffered from Downs. He had never ridden a horse before but was so excited he kept drooling and clapping. He was so sweet as he climbed up the steps to the top with his aid Joey and reached out to stroke Snippy's mane and say "Pretty horse!". Then with the aid of Joey, Nick's father who stayed to help and Cindy, he was soon sitting in the saddle and strapped in. With his father on one side by his leg, and Cindy and Joe on the other, Nick clutched the horn and proclaimed "Giddy up!" and thankfully didn't give Snippy a kick. I didn't even have to ask Snippy to move out, or walk on is another term, before she was carefully picking her way around the arena with me barely holding onto the lead. She was meant to do this, and with her gentle whuffles and the way she walked forward without even being told proved she WAS happy to have this needy child who just needed this experience even once in his young life on her back.
The other two mares, Sofie and Iris, also accepted the children on their backs and made sure their riders weren't jostled or spooked. Each child got a 5 minute ride that day, each horse taking two kids around the ring. Those horses needed those children just like those children needed those horses. All the kids in the program had other forms of therapy; art, music, swimming, sports, physical therapy, etc... but the one they look forward to the most is riding our horses. It gives them a freedom unlike any other, the connection they experience with an animal is out of this world. To deny them of it is cruel, and if you still think those horses don't love it then think of this; Snippy can NEVER be pulled from pasture any day of the week EXCEPT Saturdays. She is now the only horse we take to the center as Isis and Sofie are now living with one of our volunteer families on their huge farm with pet cows, goats and sheep (lucky things!). We decided they needed a more permanent home due to the upkeep cost and some rescuded pregnant PMU mares.
A year ago in August we got the saddest news; Nicky passed away from heart faliure. At his funeral we received a folder containing almost all his drawings of Snippy and we have many of them hanging up in our office and at the therapy clinic. Nick's father said that the times his son was the happiest was when he was riding Snippy. Sure this doesn't prove if the horses like to be ridden, but I urge you to go volunteer at your local therapy riding clinic and go with an open mind. You will see how the horses proudly and happily carry the kids around and the horses are given so much love and affection in return for a few moments of bliss.
There will always be those out there that abuse and mistreat their animals; I see if all the time in the horses we care for. But there are also those that love, appreciate and treat their animals with so much respect their animals are nothing more than proud to return it. Riding a horse to only make your own self gain, whether monetary or egotistical, is wrong. But riding a horse to release your soul is another. Those that ride like that do not mistreat their horses, and 9 times out of 10 the horses are more than happy to whisk their rider off to fly with the wind. It's a shame when people try to pull the "you don't know if the animal is happy" bullshit when they've never even been on, near or within a 50 mile radius of said animal. Of course this is my opinion, you are free to your own. But horses communicate with body language, and we humans have broken that code years ago. The natural gentling of a horse process I use is using the body signals wild horses use in a herd situation to gain the trust and respect of the horse I am working with. I've yet to meet my match, and after 13 years and a couple hundred horses later...I think I'm doing it right. Peace!
Very well said (and written), Automatisch. I couldn't agree with you more! ;)b
I have have 4 horses (3 of whom are rescues, of which all were even registerred!) and have years of experience using the horse "whispering" methods of gentle, respectful, compassionate and co-operative work between horse and human using the horse's natural communiction and perspective to bring about a mutual bond of affection and understanding and expectations of each. My horses are spoiled rotten on 30 acres of pasture with woods, grass pasture, creek, pond, and a barn to come and go into and out of as they please and they come running to me as soon as they see me and follow me around like a dog whenever i am out workinf on fence, walking, laying itn he grass enjoying just being out with them and in nature, etc. And I have volunteered for our local therapeautic riding center, too, and I second your recommendation for others to try it. People don't even need any expereicne with horses to volunteer there, normally. They will teach you and if you don't want to work directly with the horses for whatever reason, they have lots of things you can do still to help out. To see those children's faces when they get to ride a horse, when they see their favorite horse from coming each week, and heairng the parents tell how excited and happy they are to get to do thsi each week, how it is the one and only thing that really makes a big difference in their mental and physical develpoment to so many of them- it is just so incredibly and amazingly rewarding beyond any words. And the noble, sweet horses who can tell their precious cargo they are carrying around so carefully is special and fragile- you can tell the horses love those kids and they are treated extremely well with the best of care, turnout to pastures in the evening, best of food, daily loving and brushing, and so on. Google "hippotherapy," which is the technical term for the therapeutic horsesback riding, and see if there is any near you. :)>>>
too much to read... FB i hope you're more patient then me
haha, aml. fortunately i have a lot of free time these days.
Admittedly, I'm a stubborn person. So I'm going to repeat myself:
Horses do not (physically) need to be ridden.
Though some people may truly benefit from horse riding, it is not the sole method of therapy. Additionally, one can interact with a horse without riding.
It's not like someone who has some condition where they have a million plant food allergies and eat some animal products just to get decent nutrition. I'm sure those kids benefitted a lot from their experience, and I am sure that some of the horses (especially those with experience being ridden) enjoyed the interaction. However, as an unnecessary use of an animal, one that is potentially (though not always?) exploitative, it is not vegan. If one adopts a horse who has no home, cool. But having a horse doesn't meant said horse has to be ridden. Neither the horse or human requires that for interaction.
Further, Automatisch, you said:
"Riding a horse to only make your own self gain, whether monetary or egotistical, is wrong. But riding a horse to release your soul is another. "
But I believe that "releasing your soul" is entirely self-serving. It may feel great. But it's for your own gain, is it not? I feel that the spiritual experience of horseback riding still falls under this, and I am not sure of why it would ethically be different from the other two examples. The fact that monetary gain is practical does not inherently make it unethical, so I do not really see the difference. Is it to say that doing something non-vegan for a spiritual purpose is then vegan? It kind of opens a can of worms.
That being said, like anyone, I'm no perfect vegan, nor do I believe that anyone can be completely vegan by the strictest sense of the definition. I believe that it's ok to make exceptions for medical reasons or beneficent reasons (having pets, but only by adoption/rescue and not by purchase). I do not think that spiritual/personal happiness is a sufficient reason, and for the horses, I do not believe it is crucial to their happiness.
I have worked with horses, but more in a medical setting. The happiness I see in them being ridden is the same that I see them running the track on their own, rolling in the dirt, and playing with other horses. No doubt many people have a very meaningful relationship with their horses, but I do not see riding as essential to this relationship nor essential to the horse her or his self.
amymylove- Glad to see you didn't read Nick and Snippy's story, it might have made you feel guilty. ;3 Sarcasim, note it!
firefightress- So glad you were touched by my story, it truely is amazing the way the horses interact with the kids and vice versa. I'm also glad to see you work in therapy too, that's awesome! It's such a beautiful program and we are so blessed to be able to do it.
faunablues- I do not live with a vegan mentallity, I eat vegan so I differ from you obviously, and can see how riding horses isn't a vegan thing, I never fought for it to be one. Cause yeah; it's not! I agree. You're a bleeding heart which is fine that's your life, but I don't think you even opened your mind while reading my story. You missed the biggest part of this; our Snippy LIVES to go to the clinic. The only day of the week she is spirited and giddy on is Saturday, and I don't mean giddy as in spooky. She loads onto the trailer without a thought for my safety, I really only have to unclip the lead and on she goes. I never force horses onto a trailer, it's ignorant, but as long as I've been doing this I've never seen any horses get into a trailer with perked ears and whuffling happily. She even announces herself with a whinny when she gets to the clinic. I really can't give a crap what you say about horses not needing to be ridden physically, if they want to be then that is what matters most. I barely ride myself (I can and pretty well at that) because the horses I am arond are not riding horses except for Snippy. Plus I wouldn't put anyone over 100lbs on her anyway, and she only gets ridden for 15 to 20 minutes a week.
You'll continue to repeat yourself over and over and that's fine if you want to, but I have rested my case, told my story and touched at least one other person who gets it. I hope you really have worked with horses before (though in a medical sense doesn't mean you've made any connection with them like I have) and will think about helping out a therapy clinic because we need volunteers to help feed, groom and take horses out to pasture. You would not have to be around any of the riding if you choose to, trust me. I'll end it here because my soul has been fed by giving Nick some justice in fighting for the one thing he loved most; riding Snippy before his untimely death. RIP Nicky!
I'm just going to throw this out there that way faunablues isn't all on her own: Dogs and cats are used for therapy purposes as well but you don't ride them.
And this, I agree with 100%:
"But riding a horse to release your soul is another" -as in, you are getting a gain, not the horse.
faunablues- ... You're a bleeding heart which is fine that's your life
That determination is based on your two posts length of time here? You're freaking intuitive. It must be all that time you spend with your horses.
This thread is about whether horseback riding is vegan. We both agree it's not, so... yeah.
The horse likes going to do the therapy. I get that.
But also, firefightress was already in agreement with you. The flowery language did not change anyone's mind. I know you feel passionately about the work you do, but I do not see the benefit of the riding as justifying the action. Is riding necessary for the therapy anyway?
First time I've been called a bleeding heart =) usually I'm called quite the opposite. So, yeah, idk what connotation it was supposed to have, but it doesn't really matter. It's a fine line to walk, between being too compassionate or not enough. I am comfortable where I am.
I guess it's not vegan by a lot of people's standards..I eat a vegan diet, but yes I ride my horses in leather tack and leather boots.
My horses are treated like a more pampered version of wild horses. They are in the field all day and live in a herd, but they come when I call and are kept in their warm stalls (which they rush into willingly) happily munching on hay and nickering to their buddies while they snooze/eat all night. Most of my horses genuinely love working. One pony was getting quite old so he was semi-retired, but if I was out riding in the field he would walk, trot and canter right beside us so that he wasn't missing out. People say "how can you tell, they can't tell you how they feel" but a true horse person can read the body language of horses easily. And if a 1000-2000 pound animal doesn't want to do something, good luck getting them to do it.
I'm super late to this discussion, but I just wanted to add my .02 as a vegan who is involved in equine rescue.
I have two rescued mares, both of whom were found in extremely neglectful and abusive situations. One visibly loves fun, non-strenuous trail rides, so I take her out on the trails a few times a week. The other will behave under saddle, but visibly dislikes being ridden (despite ruling out all possible physical problems/discomforts). So I don't ride her--I handle her, groom her, but otherwise just let her hang out with her buddies in the pasture. I don't believe in the use of bits, steel shoes (unless they serve a corrective purpose), spurs, whips, draw reins, tie-downs, hobbles, any forceful method of training, or any sort of competition, because the potential for abuse is just too present and too great.
BUT, even if you personally choose never to ride, I think that given the current state of the equine market and the economy, it is irresponsible to own a horse of riding age/ability and not assure that the horse is trained (via compassionate training methods) to be handled, get into and out of a horse trailer, stand for the vet/farrier, and be ridden by at least an intermediate rider, if not a beginner. It is literally life insurance. The unfortunate reality is that good homes willing to take in and care for non-rideable horses are extremely few and far between, and if something were to happen to a horse's original guardian, that horse needs to have some marketable skills, so to speak, in order to have the best chance at a great new home.
It might be vegan (you aren't eating it) but I wouldn't say its animal rights (you're objectifying that horse by riding it)
I think southernfried raised a good point tho-- to say 'no one should do it so I'm not gonna teach this horse about saddles' or 'even tho this horse likes trail rides I'm not gonna take it because my ideals are more important' seems a bit misguided, to me... My philosophies aren't more important than the horse's long term well being and having-a-fun-day-ness.
There seems to be a pretty clearly marked line, throughout this thread, between the views of those who have had horses and those speaking theoretically... I think that's interesting.
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