Posted by cheerio on Feb 17, 2007 · Member since Jul 2006 · 70 posts
My friend's boyfriend insists that if you are vegan, you HAVE to be pro-life on the abortion issue.
I wasn't really sure how to respond.....
What do you make of that?
Posted by nutdragon on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Aug 2006 · 807 posts
Sorry, I was going to let it go but there is extremely fairly priced BC out there for all women. It is called planed parenthood.
I hate to de-rail that thought, because I so wish it were 100% accurate, but I am a longtime client and volunteer at Planned Parenthood and my last visit (Oct. 2006) was $128 for the exam alone (no pills). Pills are $20-$35/mo. That's around $500/year for birth-control. It was my first time in years not being insured for my yearly exam (I have a high deductable insurance policy now that I am on my own, business-wise) and I was stunned at how much the cost had risen in the last 5 years or so. I know they will work with people on the price; I didn't ask them to because I felt like I could comfortably afford it at the time.
Many community health clinics have less expensive options available, however funding is disappearing for these clinics in rural and low-income areas (those areas with the greatest need). Unfortunately access to reliable birth-control is neither universal or inexpensive.
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Posted by Tweety on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Jan 2003 · 3135 posts
I'm against abortion. Not for moral or religious regions (I am not a Christian), but because of my study of anatomy and phisiology I believe life begins pre-birth. It's not my agenda, as I have my own, and it's not an issue I get involved with and almost all the candidates I vote for are pro-abortion ("choice" seems a little sugar coating of the issue) and I defer to the will of society on this issue.
I do have a problem with a vegan who won't eat honey because it harms bee, but yet has no problem with the killing of a pre-birth human. But then again I have a problem with anyone killing a pre-birth human. That's my opinion. I've allowed for others here to have theirs without me flaming them and I expect the same consideration.
I know that others have said let's move on, but just wanted to chime my two cents in. At first I was staying out of it, but that's my two cents and now I'm staying out of it. LOL
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Posted by majicka414 on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Oct 2006 · 427 posts
While Planned Parenthoods do good work..i've noticed when they try to build new offices in "nicer" neighborhoods it's usually detrailed by people who "dont want them in their backyard". Years ago there was often news reports of violent picketers outside of their offices..Could you imagine being bombarded with these images as a young girl..it sure wouldn't make me want to go there for an exam...cheap, free or not...
OB/GYNS and pill producers need to step up to the plate. OB/GYNs need to offer free/reasonable services in THEIR offices..drug companies need to offer their pills for free or nearly free to those who cannot afford it. I think that ALL doctors should be offering their services to the uninsured public on a sliding scale...all drug companies should be offering THEIR medications to the uninsured public on a sliding scale as well.
Just because I'm insured means I deserve better healthcare and access to more preventitives? Sounds crooked to me.
Condoms don't always work...ask my 21 yr old Sis in law who's pregnant w/ twins....
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Posted by CherBear on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Jun 2006 · 317 posts
OB/GYNS and pill producers need to step up to the plate. OB/GYNs need to offer free/reasonable services in THEIR offices..drug companies need to offer their pills for free or nearly free to those who cannot afford it. I think that ALL doctors should be offering their services to the uninsured public on a sliding scale...all drug companies should be offering THEIR medications to the uninsured public on a sliding scale as well.
Just because I'm insured means I deserve better healthcare and access to more preventitives? Sounds crooked to me.
I definitely agree! A few years ago I was reading an article in a magazine. It was regarding uninsured vs. insured women battling the same diseases/illnesses. There were two woman battling breast cancer. One had insurance and therefore could afford appropriate treatment - she was going to survive. The other, who didn't have insurance and had no means to pay for the high costs of treatment only had 2 months left to live. I bawled my eyes out reading that story.
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Posted by Retro Hippie on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Nov 2006 · 19 posts
All I can say is, people who are pro-choice better not be eating eggs. >:(
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Posted by Fluffy on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Feb 2007 · 6 posts
My apologies Fluffy. The above sounded kinda harsh and I didn't mean it that way.
No worries, 7. I get the whole honey issue, and I appreciate that we have this forum to share opinions and knowledge. There's a terrible bee shortage and I try to do my part to plant flowering plants that they like.
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Posted by K2 on Feb 19, 2007 · Member since Mar 2004 · 406 posts
Condoms don't always work...ask my 21 yr old Sis in law who's pregnant w/ twins....
Tell you SIL to join her local "mother of multiples" club... They are a very valuable resource. They'll let her know who to contact about all the freebies, diapers, formula etc. They should be able to connect her with other moms who are or have been in simular situations. My club has a spring and fall swap sale to pick up used baby stuff, like cribs, strollers, clothes and all the other crap that comes along with babies. Or maybe another M.O.M. will have a bunch of hand-me-downs she can give your SIL.
K^2
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Posted by asenath on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Nov 2005 · 167 posts
All I can say is, people who are pro-choice better not be eating eggs. >:(
Hmmm? I'm pro-choice and I don't eat eggs, but I'm not sure what the above means. I'm totally confused. ???
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Posted by Anonymous on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Nobody knows what it means...so I'll say it again....if you want to debate this topic...PLEASE just go to the thousands and thousands of blogs and web pages here on the internet that are only there to debate this topic.....I'm sure you could debate it 24 hours a day for the rest of your life ( if you want to)....all I know...is that for everyone that argues against what I believe....it makes my own feelings and beliefs stronger and makes me want to fight harder...we will get nowhere.....not one single one of us.......you will believe what you want to...and those that agree with me will still believe what we believe...again I ask.....can we move on?
So I ask again.....how's the weather today where you live? :)
Posted by yabbitgirl on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Apr 2006 · 14266 posts
It rained HARD until noon, which in this drought-ridden country is wonderful, and now it's cold (for us.) Funny how often the old folk wisdom is borne out: if it rains before 7 it will stop before 11. Or as they used to say: "A morning's rain is like an old woman's dance--soon over." Our reservoirs are at 85% capacity, which is always good news. After many years of less than 12 hrs a day of water supply (and this on the municipal system!), that is good news indeed.
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Posted by CherBear on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Jun 2006 · 317 posts
Howdy Dave! It's actually ABOVE freezing here today and the mega amounts of snow we had is finally melting. I keep reminding myself that spring is around the corner, my favorite time of year! yayyyyy!! :)
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Posted by Anonymous on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Well, I'm here in Basel Switzerland and it was about 50 today...now it's about 40 (9pm or so).....just not what I expected here this time of year....but I'll take it! ::)
Posted by Retro Hippie on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Nov 2006 · 19 posts
Hmmm? I'm pro-choice and I don't eat eggs, but I'm not sure what the above means. I'm totally confused. ???
Some of the eggs people buy can actually be fertalized eggs (not factory farm eggs, considering they have no roosters around) so in a way, it's like abortion....only the decision being up to us humans instead of the chickens themselves. :(
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Posted by Anonymous on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Thanks for the tip. Not too many egg eaters here on vegweb...a few I'm sure....let's move on now...ok? ::)
Posted by Retro Hippie on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Nov 2006 · 19 posts
I was only replying to her post Sorry if i'm...disturbing anyone in this topic about abortion.
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Posted by Tweety on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Jan 2003 · 3135 posts
Dave you're sounding preachy. Why don't you just ignore this thread and give yourself a break and us a break who aren't ready to move on?
Said with the utmost kindness and respect. It's probably run it's course anyway and will go down the site soon as we quit posting to it. I think it's been a very respectful thread, with much agreement to disagree. :)
Always remember, I'm right and that's all you need to know.
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Posted by Anonymous on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Hey Retro Hippy, No problem...none at all! Welcome to our little community we have here! I just think that this topic, though it was asked in the context of veganism (is that a word?), is going to go on and on and on. I don't think anyone here will change their point of view on this very personal subject matter. As always, when it comes to abortion there are usually those on both sides of the street trying to shout above one another....in the end...nobody walks away with their minds changed. All that results out of it is anger and frustration. As I mentioned above there are literally thousands of boards and blogs out there where any of us can go post our point of views for ever and ever.
This Board has been so special, friendly and helpful to all of us. I'm not saying that we all always agree. It's good that at times we don't. That is how we learn. I think if we continue with this topic any further, all that will result out of it is hurt feelings, anger and resentment. I enjoy coming here. Being the idiot I am from time to time with some of my posts. Getting good advice, giving advice and learning about our shared lifestyle. The support here at times has been both heart warming and real. Let's continue down that path. I hope, no, I know we can.
Thanks for letting me be the weirdo and idiot I am, and letting me never feel ashamed about it guys! -dave
Posted by majicka414 on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Oct 2006 · 427 posts
do you know how to tell a fertilized egg from a non-fertilized egg? In fresh eggs you can tell this because the yolk has a small white circle in the center of it, it's been fertilized. "Factory" eggs are less fresh (infact they can be up to a MONTH or TWO old by the time they hit your store YUCK!) so even if they were fertilized you wouldn't be able to tell at that point anyway if they were or not, and honestly I'm not eating anythign that's 2 months old.
Also contrary to popular belief, if there is a "blood spot" in your egg, it is NOT a developing baby chicken. It can happen in fertilized and non-fertilized eggs. The hen basically threw a blod clot when she was developing the egg inside her, and the clot became incorporated when the egg formed.
Did you also know that hens can only lay 1 egg in a 24 hour period?
Did you also know that if they are lacking calcium in their diets they may lay soft-shell or eggless eggs? If this happens often you can add oyster shells to their diet, or if not available, save egg shells grind them up (so they don't recognize them as eggs) and feed them back to them.
Also, Chickens LOVE to eat their own eggs (which is why you have to grind up the shells if feeding back to them). If you feel your flock is laying, yet you cant find the eggs they may be eating them. Look at their beaks for traces of yolk. If this happens, collect eggs 2x a day to prevent it from becoming a habit.
There is a breed of chicken called the Arucana and the Americana. They are affectionately called the "easter eggers" because they lay eggs in a variety of colors..blue..red..green!
There are certain breeds of chicken who will not go broody (or "sit" on their eggs), the Black Star and Red Star are the most popular.
Just some little known chicken/egg facts from your neighborhood chickener ;D
P.S. CR went back to the girls today finally! What a madman!! He was so happy to see his ladies. The ladies weren't so happy to see him since he spent about an hour "restablishing" hisself... ;D
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Posted by Anonymous on Feb 20, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Tweety, Just posted as you did (up above). It's my last on this topic. Yes, you are right! ;) Though I don't believe in a god...amen!
Sorry, I was going to let it go but there is extremely fairly priced BC out there for all women. It is called planed parenthood.
I hate to de-rail that thought, because I so wish it were 100% accurate, but I am a longtime client and volunteer at Planned Parenthood and my last visit (Oct. 2006) was $128 for the exam alone (no pills). Pills are $20-$35/mo. That's around $500/year for birth-control.
It was my first time in years not being insured for my yearly exam (I have a high deductable insurance policy now that I am on my own, business-wise) and I was stunned at how much the cost had risen in the last 5 years or so. I know they will work with people on the price; I didn't ask them to because I felt like I could comfortably afford it at the time.
Many community health clinics have less expensive options available, however funding is disappearing for these clinics in rural and low-income areas (those areas with the greatest need). Unfortunately access to reliable birth-control is neither universal or inexpensive.
I'm against abortion. Not for moral or religious regions (I am not a Christian), but because of my study of anatomy and phisiology I believe life begins pre-birth. It's not my agenda, as I have my own, and it's not an issue I get involved with and almost all the candidates I vote for are pro-abortion ("choice" seems a little sugar coating of the issue) and I defer to the will of society on this issue.
I do have a problem with a vegan who won't eat honey because it harms bee, but yet has no problem with the killing of a pre-birth human. But then again I have a problem with anyone killing a pre-birth human. That's my opinion. I've allowed for others here to have theirs without me flaming them and I expect the same consideration.
I know that others have said let's move on, but just wanted to chime my two cents in. At first I was staying out of it, but that's my two cents and now I'm staying out of it. LOL
While Planned Parenthoods do good work..i've noticed when they try to build new offices in "nicer" neighborhoods it's usually detrailed by people who "dont want them in their backyard". Years ago there was often news reports of violent picketers outside of their offices..Could you imagine being bombarded with these images as a young girl..it sure wouldn't make me want to go there for an exam...cheap, free or not...
OB/GYNS and pill producers need to step up to the plate. OB/GYNs need to offer free/reasonable services in THEIR offices..drug companies need to offer their pills for free or nearly free to those who cannot afford it. I think that ALL doctors should be offering their services to the uninsured public on a sliding scale...all drug companies should be offering THEIR medications to the uninsured public on a sliding scale as well.
Just because I'm insured means I deserve better healthcare and access to more preventitives? Sounds crooked to me.
Condoms don't always work...ask my 21 yr old Sis in law who's pregnant w/ twins....
OB/GYNS and pill producers need to step up to the plate. OB/GYNs need to offer free/reasonable services in THEIR offices..drug companies need to offer their pills for free or nearly free to those who cannot afford it. I think that ALL doctors should be offering their services to the uninsured public on a sliding scale...all drug companies should be offering THEIR medications to the uninsured public on a sliding scale as well.
Just because I'm insured means I deserve better healthcare and access to more preventitives? Sounds crooked to me.
I definitely agree! A few years ago I was reading an article in a magazine. It was regarding uninsured vs. insured women battling the same diseases/illnesses. There were two woman battling breast cancer. One had insurance and therefore could afford appropriate treatment - she was going to survive. The other, who didn't have insurance and had no means to pay for the high costs of treatment only had 2 months left to live. I bawled my eyes out reading that story.
All I can say is, people who are pro-choice better not be eating eggs. >:(
My apologies Fluffy. The above sounded kinda harsh and I didn't mean it that way.
No worries, 7. I get the whole honey issue, and I appreciate that we have this forum to share opinions and knowledge. There's a terrible bee shortage and I try to do my part to plant flowering plants that they like.
Condoms don't always work...ask my 21 yr old Sis in law who's pregnant w/ twins....
Tell you SIL to join her local "mother of multiples" club... They are a very valuable resource. They'll let her know who to contact about all the freebies, diapers, formula etc. They should be able to connect her with other moms who are or have been in simular situations. My club has a spring and fall swap sale to pick up used baby stuff, like cribs, strollers, clothes and all the other crap that comes along with babies. Or maybe another M.O.M. will have a bunch of hand-me-downs she can give your SIL.
K^2
All I can say is, people who are pro-choice better not be eating eggs. >:(
Hmmm? I'm pro-choice and I don't eat eggs, but I'm not sure what the above means. I'm totally confused. ???
Nobody knows what it means...so I'll say it again....if you want to debate this topic...PLEASE just go to the thousands and thousands of blogs and web pages here on the internet that are only there to debate this topic.....I'm sure you could debate it 24 hours a day for the rest of your life ( if you want to)....all I know...is that for everyone that argues against what I believe....it makes my own feelings and beliefs stronger and makes me want to fight harder...we will get nowhere.....not one single one of us.......you will believe what you want to...and those that agree with me will still believe what we believe...again I ask.....can we move on?
So I ask again.....how's the weather today where you live? :)
It rained HARD until noon, which in this drought-ridden country is wonderful, and now it's cold (for us.) Funny how often the old folk wisdom is borne out: if it rains before 7 it will stop before 11. Or as they used to say: "A morning's rain is like an old woman's dance--soon over."
Our reservoirs are at 85% capacity, which is always good news. After many years of less than 12 hrs a day of water supply (and this on the municipal system!), that is good news indeed.
Howdy Dave! It's actually ABOVE freezing here today and the mega amounts of snow we had is finally melting. I keep reminding myself that spring is around the corner, my favorite time of year! yayyyyy!! :)
Well, I'm here in Basel Switzerland and it was about 50 today...now it's about 40 (9pm or so).....just not what I expected here this time of year....but I'll take it! ::)
Hmmm? I'm pro-choice and I don't eat eggs, but I'm not sure what the above means. I'm totally confused. ???
Some of the eggs people buy can actually be fertalized eggs (not factory farm eggs, considering they have no roosters around) so in a way, it's like abortion....only the decision being up to us humans instead of the chickens themselves. :(
Thanks for the tip. Not too many egg eaters here on vegweb...a few I'm sure....let's move on now...ok? ::)
I was only replying to her post
Sorry if i'm...disturbing anyone in this topic about abortion.
Dave you're sounding preachy. Why don't you just ignore this thread and give yourself a break and us a break who aren't ready to move on?
Said with the utmost kindness and respect. It's probably run it's course anyway and will go down the site soon as we quit posting to it. I think it's been a very respectful thread, with much agreement to disagree. :)
Always remember, I'm right and that's all you need to know.
Hey Retro Hippy,
No problem...none at all! Welcome to our little community we have here! I just think that this topic, though it was asked in the context of veganism (is that a word?), is going to go on and on and on. I don't think anyone here will change their point of view on this very personal subject matter. As always, when it comes to abortion there are usually those on both sides of the street trying to shout above one another....in the end...nobody walks away with their minds changed. All that results out of it is anger and frustration. As I mentioned above there are literally thousands of boards and blogs out there where any of us can go post our point of views for ever and ever.
This Board has been so special, friendly and helpful to all of us. I'm not saying that we all always agree. It's good that at times we don't. That is how we learn. I think if we continue with this topic any further, all that will result out of it is hurt feelings, anger and resentment. I enjoy coming here. Being the idiot I am from time to time with some of my posts. Getting good advice, giving advice and learning about our shared lifestyle. The support here at times has been both heart warming and real. Let's continue down that path. I hope, no, I know we can.
Thanks for letting me be the weirdo and idiot I am, and letting me never feel ashamed about it guys!
-dave
do you know how to tell a fertilized egg from a non-fertilized egg? In fresh eggs you can tell this because the yolk has a small white circle in the center of it, it's been fertilized. "Factory" eggs are less fresh (infact they can be up to a MONTH or TWO old by the time they hit your store YUCK!) so even if they were fertilized you wouldn't be able to tell at that point anyway if they were or not, and honestly I'm not eating anythign that's 2 months old.
Also contrary to popular belief, if there is a "blood spot" in your egg, it is NOT a developing baby chicken. It can happen in fertilized and non-fertilized eggs. The hen basically threw a blod clot when she was developing the egg inside her, and the clot became incorporated when the egg formed.
Did you also know that hens can only lay 1 egg in a 24 hour period?
Did you also know that if they are lacking calcium in their diets they may lay soft-shell or eggless eggs? If this happens often you can add oyster shells to their diet, or if not available, save egg shells grind them up (so they don't recognize them as eggs) and feed them back to them.
Also, Chickens LOVE to eat their own eggs (which is why you have to grind up the shells if feeding back to them). If you feel your flock is laying, yet you cant find the eggs they may be eating them. Look at their beaks for traces of yolk. If this happens, collect eggs 2x a day to prevent it from becoming a habit.
There is a breed of chicken called the Arucana and the Americana. They are affectionately called the "easter eggers" because they lay eggs in a variety of colors..blue..red..green!
There are certain breeds of chicken who will not go broody (or "sit" on their eggs), the Black Star and Red Star are the most popular.
Just some little known chicken/egg facts from your neighborhood chickener ;D
P.S. CR went back to the girls today finally! What a madman!! He was so happy to see his ladies. The ladies weren't so happy to see him since he spent about an hour "restablishing" hisself... ;D
Tweety,
Just posted as you did (up above). It's my last on this topic.
Yes, you are right! ;)
Though I don't believe in a god...amen!
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