I also don't know the biological explanation of shellfish, clams, etc. feeling pain, BUT... I do know that when fisherman go trolling for their catch (with the intention of clams, lobster, shrimp.....), a TON of other animals (fish, mainly) are caught in the nets accidentally. I have read about this before, but was reminded when I watched the show "Dirty Jobs" on Discovery this past weekend. The host was on a shrimp boat, fishing for shrimp--but each time they drew up the net to get their catch, literally hundreds of fish were also caught in the net... Mainly fish, actually. Shrimp were such a small portion of the catch that the workers had to sift through the fish & pick out the shrimp by hand. They attempted to throw back the fish, but many of them died from being out of the water too long, and A LOT of them were accidentally stepped on, as well. They were just looked at as collateral damage, pretty much. A stingray also got caught in the net & was handled really roughly, and it happens with dolphins quite often, as well. That's the cost of getting shrimp...

It sounds like you are mostly interested in animal rights as your motivation for being vegan, but the fishing industry (no matter what kind of fish) is also bad for the environment (overfishing the waters) & they accidentally kill much more than they are able to sell. So, even if it's proven that clams or shrimp, etc. don't feel pain, them being caught still causes death & pain to other wildlife. It's unavoidable. And healthwise, there is nothing in seafood (vitamins, nutrients, protein...) that we can't get from vegan sources. It's just unnecessary.

We don't know for sure if animals with "minuscule" brains feel pain, so I'd really prefer to err on the side of safety... If you don't know, why assume they can't feel pain? Plus (last thing), I really feel that animals are here with their own purposes & to live their own lives. Just because we don't understand it, or think their "purpose" isn't as important as that of humans, that shouldn't matter. It's not for us to say what should be done with them, or use them to satisfy our own "needs" or desires...

I've gotten over caring when people give me shit (just because you can't hear the carrots screaming, etc.),

how the HECK are we supposed to respond when people say - "well, vegetables are living things, but you still eat them."?

it's such a ridiculous statement, that I don't even know what to say to it. of course vegetables live and grow etc...

whatever.

I once went to a fish farm in New Brunswick. I saw all three stages of a salmon fishery and I can safely say that it is not a positive thing. Although the killing of these fish lacks the collateral damage (other sea life etc.) they are still creating a rather massive health/environmental issue. The eggs are kept in holding tanks and fed antibiotics since they are more prone to  certain diseases in this type of environment.  When they hatch the fish are moved into larger holding tanks where they are given more antibiotics and the dead fish are scooped out twice a day. When I was there a section of tanks were quarantined because some sort of fish disease had broken out and all the fish were completely useless as a result. This section was comprised of 5-6 tank each tank holding thousands of fish.

When the fish are to big to be kept in tanks any longer they are placed in ocean holing areas. Basically a giant fishing net where thy can swim around in a specific area.  The problem with this is that thousands of fish are kept in one area. So all the fish waste naturally collects in one area since this is more than the eco system can actually maintain the areas usually lack and vegetation. Not to mention just standing on the dock next to it reeks to high heaven.

Fish farming creates a lot of waste and is damaging to the environment.

I imagine that the problems that exist in salmon farming would exist amongst any kind of sea creature farming. Fish farming also generally does not produce good quality fish in general this is why a lot of restaurants will state that the fish they serve is wild rather than farmed.

Just a note, I have nothing to back up this information other than what I saw this based on my own experience and nothing else people are more than willing to state otherwise this is just my experience with fish farms. The trip involved 3 stops, 1: eggs and fresh water spawn 2: fresh and salt water holding tanks 3: Ocean holding area. There was also a stop at a fish processing plant and that would be why I no longer eat fish.

Everything that I have read on the subject says that bivalve molluscs (scallops, clams, oysters, mussels, etc.), do not have the neural capacity to feel pain or suffer.  They all have reactive properties but the reactions never get translated into a sensation of pain or pleasure, the capabilities just do not exist in their neurological systems. All of the classes of mollusc above them are a very different story though. 

i always just skip the technicalities and say "i'm vegan, so i dont eat animals or anything that comes from them' thats it, if they want to debate that, they cant, i'm vegan.  thats it.  no debate.  i dont know if they feel pain, i just know that i am vegan, and that i dont eat animals.  the end.  i say this for honey too. 

i've tried to argue these things several times and it just gives me a headache! bleagh!

I'm the same.  I mean, suppose I killed a cow by gently gassing it to sleep.  Even though it felt no pain, I wouldn't eat it.  Vegans don't eat animals or animal products, for any number of reasons.  The end. 

I haven't been vegan very long, but when I was ovo-lacto, when people would ask me why in a nice way, I would tell them my reasons, but if they started to argue or mock, I would ask them why they eat meat, and give them a pretty much opposite reply to everything they said...ex: Them: "I eat meat because it tastes good. "  Me:  "I don't think meat tastes good." 

You get the idea.

And Pagan_Veela I've heard and read reports about fish farms.  They all sounded exactly like what you said.  I could never eat fish after learning that.

Thankyou very much! A lot of ideas each full of insight and helpful. I have never thought of it that way.

However I think that being a vegan, it is of our responsibility to help people convert
nor push away other ideas because we don't understand it ourselves. I think it's very important for a vegan to spread ideas becuase if we don't there is no substantial reason in being a vegan as there continue to be many animals being killed anyway.

Please do not be angry at people who ask about the plants or anything else, it sounds obnoxious and rude however many really do not understand and are not saying just to make us angry. (ok sometime they do, but we have to turn that around and see it as a way of their curiosity of veganism) they need us to politely tell them the truth. (:

i've tried to 'convert' people before by giving them lots of information, discussing things with them, it didn't work, our relationships became hostile and argumentative.  blegh!  it wasn't until i stopped and just kind of let things be that they felt more relaxed sharing my food with me and now they (my family) are all very health conscious and almost vegetarian.  i think it depends on the people that one is talking with and what their attitude/personality is like.  but i certainly feel like crap when close friends/family still eat meat after all these years....  gross.

one more thing, where are you from?  i couldn't tell by your profile, it looked like a language form scandanavia, but thats as far as i got : )

I don't eat any animals, including shrimps and jellyfish and the such.
When people ask why vegan? I tell them it is to reduce the suffering and pain.

Then they ask about the sea creatures with miniscule brains and the highly possibility of the incapability of feeling pain. And then I don't know why one should refrain from eating them.

It does not appear that a clam is capable of feeling pain, yet I fear to devour them, in case they can.

There was a study done in a University a few years ago that showed lobsters do indeed feel pain (when thrown in boiling water).  All you have to do is go scuba diving and come across lobsters.  They hold hands.  The come out of their hidey holes and try to scare you away waving their antennae.  So very sweet.  They can live 75 years.  I have seen many in a hole holding hands.  I have seen a couple walking on the bottom of the ocean holding hands.  Of course, I only take their pictures underwater. 

I believe everything murdered feels pain.