Posted by Anonymous on Oct 10, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
What can be done about them?
Posted by Fee on Oct 10, 2007 · Member since Aug 2007 · 499 posts
I don't think there's really a way of preventing them short of infringing on personal rights....
I mean, gun control would benefit the United States, but there's no hope of that with the current pres.
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Posted by Cephi on Oct 10, 2007 · Member since Feb 2007 · 371 posts
A greater social emphasis on mental health would help. Also transitioning, as a society, away from media worship of violence and killing. Lots of people resist this, but the studies just leave no doubt that violent movies and games help create violent dispositions.
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Posted by cutething on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
I think a lot of it has to do with the school systems. You guys remember (I assume) public school. It sucked. People were nasty, teachers were out of touch, by and large, and the whole system seemed designed to make everyone as miserable as possible. I think public education needs an overhaul.
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Posted by Anonymous on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Someone once said the only way to deter it is arm the students and teachers (not like in elementary schools etc they meant in colleges). They think the only way to deter it is with the same thing.
Now I don't agree with the students part but with the teachers that's kind of interesting I think.
Posted by nutdragon on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Aug 2006 · 807 posts
Someone once said the only way to deter it is arm the students and teachers (not like in elementary schools etc they meant in colleges). They think the only way to deter it is with the same thing.
Now I don't agree with the students part but with the teachers that's kind of interesting I think.
What do yous think?
Excellent idea! So good, in fact I think we should extend that philosophy to our foreign policy as well. Think of how much safer we'd all be if, instead of worrying about a few nations having nuclear weapons, we just gave 'em out to everybody. Nothing like living in fear to encourage productivity.
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Posted by yabbitgirl on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Apr 2006 · 14266 posts
I think a lot of it has to do with the school systems. You guys remember (I assume) public school. It sucked. People were nasty, teachers were out of touch, by and large, and the whole system seemed designed to make everyone as miserable as possible. I think public education needs an overhaul.
I would have to agree. And awareness! Parents whose kids have gone on shooting sprees are heard to say they had no idea that their kid "had a problem". Like here, a friend of mine's cousin committed suicide and her parents (my friend's aunt and uncle) had no idea there was a problem. She left a note saying "Mom, Dad, I did something really stupid and I'm sorry." They had no idea what it was she might have done (she wasn't pregnant). Her parents also apparently were the only people in the neighbourhood who did not know that her boyfriend beat on her occasionally and treated her like dirt all the time. They thought "he was a nice boy." Makes me think that some parents need some sort of "how to hear what your kids aren't saying" course. If such a thing were possible.
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Posted by Fee on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Aug 2007 · 499 posts
Parents will always be last to think poorly of their children. I know I love my mom, and she takes really good care of me - but if I didn't want her to know about something, she'd be in the dark. Psychologically, it's hard for a parent to deal with the fact that their kid might be depressed...they don't understand it. They blame themselves for not seeing things sooner, and it's not really their fault. Some of us just turn out screwed up. No parent wants their kid to be that "screwed up" one, so they don't let themselves see it.
And about the arming of teachers, I would be terrified if I knew that any of my professors could be armed. Kids aren't the only ones that can go crazy.
But like Cephi said, the more we talk about these kids who have done it, the more we glorify the situation. After VT I was really sad to see it on tv all over the place, they needed to stop feeding this kid what he wanted in the first place.
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Posted by SnowQueen690 on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Jun 2005 · 1569 posts
I see a lot of anti-gun talk but I don't believe banning guns would solve anything. Teaching children gun safetly I think is a solution. I have two guns myself, love them, would never get rid of them, even if they were made illegal, one of them is a family herloom, the idea has never occured to me to shoot a person with them...why would I? I grew up with guns, have been around them all of my life. My mom used to keep loaded guns under her bed, they were always loaded, I knew it, and so I knew to be careful with them, even as a small child. The thought of taking one of these guns to school never crossed my mind, to me they were no big deal. Every Sunday my mom and step-dad would shoot paint cans, coffee cans, and gallon milk jugs full of water. If I wanted to shoot a gun, I was allowed to, I did shoot a coffee can at times, but eventually I got to the point where I didn't care for them, they are loud, they kick a lot, whats the big deal? My mom was very strict about gun safety. Never point a gun at anyone, always make sure the barrel was pointed at the gound or someplace neutral weather it was loaded or not. Just like sex ed, I think gun ed is very important if a family owns guns. Hiding anything from a child only makes the child want it more...the forbidden fruit, doesn't the bible teach this? Taking them away from law abiding citizens only gives the evil people the upper hand. The solution to school shootins is gun ed, where children are allowed to shoot and learn to shoot responsibly, so that they then think that guns are no big deal.
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Posted by Tkitty96 on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since May 2006 · 1789 posts
A greater social emphasis on mental health would help. Also transitioning, as a society, away from media worship of violence and killing. Lots of people resist this, but the studies just leave no doubt that violent movies and games help create violent dispositions.
I have to agree with Cephi here. Gun banning vs gun education, it doesn't matter. Guns are not the problem here. The problem is that our society glorifies violence.
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Posted by lotus42 on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Mar 2007 · 3081 posts
I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Violence is definitely glorified in our society. Kids think it's funny. I notice it in teaching elementary school. My children talk to me about watching violent "R" rated movies, playing Grand Theft Auto, etc. It makes me vomitous. It is really bad where I teach. Seriously, it never fails. Every single time I give out rhtyhm sticks, at least one child holds it like a gun and pretends to shoot someone (these are k-3rd graders). It really upsets me that these children aren't being taught about the seriousness of guns by their parents. I do what I can, but as a state employee, my abilities are limited.
I suppose this is brash, but the problem is parents.
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Posted by Ecstatic on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Jul 2007 · 531 posts
I, too, agree with those who say guns are not the problem. I grew up with a dad who owned several guns. He taught me to shoot, in fact. I own a gun myself. Gun safety and gun education was second hand knowledge to me by the time I turned 6! I knew it was a serious thing, a powerful weapon that could end another person's life - for good.
I would NEVER go out on a killing spree and, as a kid, it never even crossed my mind to take my parent's guns too school.
The problem with gun control is that it limits the ability of good, honest people to own guns. But, does nothing to stop the bad ones from owning them (the blackmarket in terms of guns is easy to get to and buy from). I'll never give up my right to bear arms. Make it illegal, and I'll still keep a gun with me. Getting rid of it is not an option for me, and I'd encourage my children to own one (when they grew up, of course).
I think it's like sexual education. It's something that people need to discuss with their kids. Keep the communication open and flowing. Those parents who can't do this, shouldn't have guns where kids know about them or can access them.
I, too, agree that violence is glorified. Kids running around, pretending to shoot someone disturbs me.
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Posted by cutething on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 139 posts
I, too, agree with those who say guns are not the problem. I grew up with a dad who owned several guns. He taught me to shoot, in fact. I own a gun myself. Gun safety and gun education was second hand knowledge to me by the time I turned 6! I knew it was a serious thing, a powerful weapon that could end another person's life - for good.
I would NEVER go out on a killing spree and, as a kid, it never even crossed my mind to take my parent's guns too school.
The problem with gun control is that it limits the ability of good, honest people to own guns. But, does nothing to stop the bad ones from owning them (the blackmarket in terms of guns is easy to get to and buy from). I'll never give up my right to bear arms. Make it illegal, and I'll still keep a gun with me. Getting rid of it is not an option for me, and I'd encourage my children to own one (when they grew up, of course).
I think it's like sexual education. It's something that people need to discuss with their kids. Keep the communication open and flowing. Those parents who can't do this, shouldn't have guns where kids know about them or can access them.
I, too, agree that violence is glorified. Kids running around, pretending to shoot someone disturbs me.
I don't know. In the instance of columbine, and many of these shootings, it doesn't seem that ignorance is the problem. In fact, I think these kids are VERY much aware that guns kill people. Most of them end up taking their own lives.
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Posted by Ecstatic on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Jul 2007 · 531 posts
I don't know. In the instance of columbine, and many of these shootings, it doesn't seem that ignorance is the problem. In fact, I think these kids are VERY much aware that guns kill people. Most of them end up taking their own lives.
This is a good point. If I'm going to be honest, I think there is something wrong with these kids. Wrong as in mentally or psychologically or simply a lack of values/philosophy. Whether that is because of their brain sturcture, or the environment in which they are raised or a combination of both ... I don't know.
But, when some kid takes a gun to school and starts shooting people ... there is something "off" about them. Actually, when ANYONE takes a gun and randomly starts shooting people ... there is something "off" about them. Now, as I said, whether that's emotional or psychological, or mental or philosophical - I have no idea.
I just know that a mentally and emotionally sound person/child does not take a gun to school and shoot people.
As far as the solution ... I don't really have one. I think it should begin at the root of the problem - raising children that are healthy: mind, body, spirit. Keeping the communication open, spending time with your kids, being there, observing them, etc., so that when there is a problem, you can step in before it spirals out of control.
I don't think there's really a way of preventing them short of infringing on personal rights....
I mean, gun control would benefit the United States, but there's no hope of that with the current pres.
A greater social emphasis on mental health would help. Also transitioning, as a society, away from media worship of violence and killing. Lots of people resist this, but the studies just leave no doubt that violent movies and games help create violent dispositions.
I think a lot of it has to do with the school systems. You guys remember (I assume) public school. It sucked. People were nasty, teachers were out of touch, by and large, and the whole system seemed designed to make everyone as miserable as possible. I think public education needs an overhaul.
Someone once said the only way to deter it is arm the students and teachers (not like in elementary schools etc they meant in colleges). They think the only way to deter it is with the same thing.
Now I don't agree with the students part but with the teachers that's kind of interesting I think.
What do yous think?
Someone once said the only way to deter it is arm the students and teachers (not like in elementary schools etc they meant in colleges). They think the only way to deter it is with the same thing.
Now I don't agree with the students part but with the teachers that's kind of interesting I think.
What do yous think?
Excellent idea! So good, in fact I think we should extend that philosophy to our foreign policy as well. Think of how much safer we'd all be if, instead of worrying about a few nations having nuclear weapons, we just gave 'em out to everybody. Nothing like living in fear to encourage productivity.
I think a lot of it has to do with the school systems. You guys remember (I assume) public school. It sucked. People were nasty, teachers were out of touch, by and large, and the whole system seemed designed to make everyone as miserable as possible. I think public education needs an overhaul.
I would have to agree. And awareness! Parents whose kids have gone on shooting sprees are heard to say they had no idea that their kid "had a problem". Like here, a friend of mine's cousin committed suicide and her parents (my friend's aunt and uncle) had no idea there was a problem. She left a note saying "Mom, Dad, I did something really stupid and I'm sorry." They had no idea what it was she might have done (she wasn't pregnant). Her parents also apparently were the only people in the neighbourhood who did not know that her boyfriend beat on her occasionally and treated her like dirt all the time. They thought "he was a nice boy." Makes me think that some parents need some sort of "how to hear what your kids aren't saying" course. If such a thing were possible.
Parents will always be last to think poorly of their children. I know I love my mom, and she takes really good care of me - but if I didn't want her to know about something, she'd be in the dark. Psychologically, it's hard for a parent to deal with the fact that their kid might be depressed...they don't understand it. They blame themselves for not seeing things sooner, and it's not really their fault. Some of us just turn out screwed up. No parent wants their kid to be that "screwed up" one, so they don't let themselves see it.
And about the arming of teachers, I would be terrified if I knew that any of my professors could be armed. Kids aren't the only ones that can go crazy.
But like Cephi said, the more we talk about these kids who have done it, the more we glorify the situation. After VT I was really sad to see it on tv all over the place, they needed to stop feeding this kid what he wanted in the first place.
I see a lot of anti-gun talk but I don't believe banning guns would solve anything. Teaching children gun safetly I think is a solution. I have two guns myself, love them, would never get rid of them, even if they were made illegal, one of them is a family herloom, the idea has never occured to me to shoot a person with them...why would I? I grew up with guns, have been around them all of my life. My mom used to keep loaded guns under her bed, they were always loaded, I knew it, and so I knew to be careful with them, even as a small child. The thought of taking one of these guns to school never crossed my mind, to me they were no big deal. Every Sunday my mom and step-dad would shoot paint cans, coffee cans, and gallon milk jugs full of water. If I wanted to shoot a gun, I was allowed to, I did shoot a coffee can at times, but eventually I got to the point where I didn't care for them, they are loud, they kick a lot, whats the big deal? My mom was very strict about gun safety. Never point a gun at anyone, always make sure the barrel was pointed at the gound or someplace neutral weather it was loaded or not. Just like sex ed, I think gun ed is very important if a family owns guns. Hiding anything from a child only makes the child want it more...the forbidden fruit, doesn't the bible teach this? Taking them away from law abiding citizens only gives the evil people the upper hand. The solution to school shootins is gun ed, where children are allowed to shoot and learn to shoot responsibly, so that they then think that guns are no big deal.
A greater social emphasis on mental health would help. Also transitioning, as a society, away from media worship of violence and killing. Lots of people resist this, but the studies just leave no doubt that violent movies and games help create violent dispositions.
I have to agree with Cephi here. Gun banning vs gun education, it doesn't matter. Guns are not the problem here. The problem is that our society glorifies violence.
I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Violence is definitely glorified in our society. Kids think it's funny. I notice it in teaching elementary school. My children talk to me about watching violent "R" rated movies, playing Grand Theft Auto, etc. It makes me vomitous. It is really bad where I teach. Seriously, it never fails. Every single time I give out rhtyhm sticks, at least one child holds it like a gun and pretends to shoot someone (these are k-3rd graders). It really upsets me that these children aren't being taught about the seriousness of guns by their parents. I do what I can, but as a state employee, my abilities are limited.
I suppose this is brash, but the problem is parents.
I, too, agree with those who say guns are not the problem. I grew up with a dad who owned several guns. He taught me to shoot, in fact. I own a gun myself. Gun safety and gun education was second hand knowledge to me by the time I turned 6! I knew it was a serious thing, a powerful weapon that could end another person's life - for good.
I would NEVER go out on a killing spree and, as a kid, it never even crossed my mind to take my parent's guns too school.
The problem with gun control is that it limits the ability of good, honest people to own guns. But, does nothing to stop the bad ones from owning them (the blackmarket in terms of guns is easy to get to and buy from). I'll never give up my right to bear arms. Make it illegal, and I'll still keep a gun with me. Getting rid of it is not an option for me, and I'd encourage my children to own one (when they grew up, of course).
I think it's like sexual education. It's something that people need to discuss with their kids. Keep the communication open and flowing. Those parents who can't do this, shouldn't have guns where kids know about them or can access them.
I, too, agree that violence is glorified. Kids running around, pretending to shoot someone disturbs me.
I, too, agree with those who say guns are not the problem. I grew up with a dad who owned several guns. He taught me to shoot, in fact. I own a gun myself. Gun safety and gun education was second hand knowledge to me by the time I turned 6! I knew it was a serious thing, a powerful weapon that could end another person's life - for good.
I would NEVER go out on a killing spree and, as a kid, it never even crossed my mind to take my parent's guns too school.
The problem with gun control is that it limits the ability of good, honest people to own guns. But, does nothing to stop the bad ones from owning them (the blackmarket in terms of guns is easy to get to and buy from). I'll never give up my right to bear arms. Make it illegal, and I'll still keep a gun with me. Getting rid of it is not an option for me, and I'd encourage my children to own one (when they grew up, of course).
I think it's like sexual education. It's something that people need to discuss with their kids. Keep the communication open and flowing. Those parents who can't do this, shouldn't have guns where kids know about them or can access them.
I, too, agree that violence is glorified. Kids running around, pretending to shoot someone disturbs me.
I don't know. In the instance of columbine, and many of these shootings, it doesn't seem that ignorance is the problem. In fact, I think these kids are VERY much aware that guns kill people. Most of them end up taking their own lives.
I don't know. In the instance of columbine, and many of these shootings, it doesn't seem that ignorance is the problem. In fact, I think these kids are VERY much aware that guns kill people. Most of them end up taking their own lives.
This is a good point. If I'm going to be honest, I think there is something wrong with these kids. Wrong as in mentally or psychologically or simply a lack of values/philosophy. Whether that is because of their brain sturcture, or the environment in which they are raised or a combination of both ... I don't know.
But, when some kid takes a gun to school and starts shooting people ... there is something "off" about them. Actually, when ANYONE takes a gun and randomly starts shooting people ... there is something "off" about them. Now, as I said, whether that's emotional or psychological, or mental or philosophical - I have no idea.
I just know that a mentally and emotionally sound person/child does not take a gun to school and shoot people.
As far as the solution ... I don't really have one. I think it should begin at the root of the problem - raising children that are healthy: mind, body, spirit. Keeping the communication open, spending time with your kids, being there, observing them, etc., so that when there is a problem, you can step in before it spirals out of control.