So I might have gotten myself into trouble today...
Hey all, I made a couple of people angry today standing up for an animal. Granted, I didn't take the smartest route to help the animal, but...I got caught up in the heat of the moment. Judge for yourself. Here's the story.
So I ride horses. I have one myself, and board her at a public boarding barn. It's not a huge barn, by any means, but there are a small group of us that are very dedicated and are there nearly every day to work with other horses. Anyway...I was talking to a couple of my barn friends as one of them rides. We heard some yelling coming from outside the arena, and I decided to investigate. I went to the gate, and found one of the younger riders, (she's 11 years old), a friend of hers that lives nearby, and the the 11-year-old's mom screaming at one of our barn cats and chasing him from the front of the barn. (We have 4 barn cats whose only jobs are to catch unwanted rodents and critters.)
It seemed that one of the cats had climbed up into one of the trees on the property and snagged a baby squirrel from its nest. Another cat (the one being chased) had stolen the squirrel and was now carrying the still-living baby in its mouth. The three women were running after this cat, screaming at it to drop the squirrel. And then the 11-year-old starting throwing things at the cat and trying to corner it. (I think she was throwing rocks, but I don't know for sure.)
At this point, I start (futiley) calling out that yelling at the cat isn't going to help things. This is ignored.
They managed to herd the cat up into and barn, and corner it. He dropped the squirrel on the barn aisle, and was promptly scooped up by the 11-year-old and told what a "bad cat" he was.
All of this happens in about 10 seconds.
Now all of the adults (3-4) are telling the little girls not to touch the squirrel. Someone says to grab a towel and take it...somewhere. I volunteer, saying I'll get it. I walk forward and bend over to scoop up the bleeding baby, when I hear what sounds like 3 slaps. My mind remembers having just seen the 11-year-old take the cat up the barn aisle into the washing room/kitchen (don't ask). She's beating that cat! Adrenaline starts pumping through to my brain, and at this point, I lose pretty much all control on rational thinking.
I think I yelled the girl's name. (If I didn't, I know her dad did, and he didn't sound too happy.) Anywho, she reappears and lets the cat go. I say (too loudly) that if I ever catch her beating that cat, I'll beat her. She looks at me like she can't believe that I've just said this, and says "You can't touch me!!"
Her mom chimes in behind me, yelling "What did you say?!?" (She also said something to the effect that I couldn't touch her daughter.)
To finish up, I scooped up the squirrel, took him out back (away from all of the commotion) where he could die in peace. As I was returning from my trip, I saw the girl's mom and said "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to threaten her like that."
"Yeah right."
They left, and I finished up what I was doing. It's going to be an interesting day at the barn tomorrow.
I don't think that they can press any type of legal charges since their daughter's a minor, and I am too, I didn't have a weapon of any kind, and never actually came close to touching her.
So....yeah. There's my animal rights episode of the day. To top it all off, the girl's mom is a vegetarian. I would think that she, of all the people at the barn besides me (the sole vegan), would understand the circle of like. The cats were only doing what their instincts told them to do.
I have to point out that, even I, as someone who hates animal cruelty and hates to see people abusing animals ... would react equally badly as the mom if someone threatened to beat my own child.
As in, you threaten my child ... and you better watch out. I didn't catch if you actually worked there, but if you did ... as a mom, I'd make sure any employer who threatened my child would be fired. It's practically biological instinct to react that way - protect one's cubs, and all.
This is why tkitty is exactly right. A private, calm conversation to the parents is a much better way to handle this.
Kids will do odd things, but it doesn't mean they're inherently cruel. Let me tell you, I ADORE animals, always have. When I was 8, I would hold my cat down and brush his teeth with human toothpaste and toothbrush (my dad's). (My parents didn't know about this.). In my mind, I was helping the cat out to maintain good hygiene. Obviously, it was wrong and I totally mistreated the poor animal. I know that in hindsight. But, then, I thought it was a good thing.
I'm sure she thought saving the squirell (sp?) was a good thing, and disciplining the cat (as she probably gets disciplined at home via spanking) was equally OK. So, to threaten to beat her doesn't really teach or solve anything. In fact, it reinforces the idea in the girl's mind that beating someone is a good way to teach a lesson.
If you get a chance, maybe talk to the girl and say that you understand that she was just sticking up for the squirrel, but you were sticking up for the cat, so you both had the same intentions in different ways, and you both obviously love animals, so sorry about the misunderstanding. You can do this alone, or in front of the parents (and hopefully they don't cut in). Also explain that cats can't help hunting, because they are natural born hunters and such.
If they shun you or turn up their noses, then forget about them, its not necessary to have their respect for your life to continue, and just be more careful next time.
I think that is excellent advice, Amanda! It seems like it would be helpful to point out how your actions were the same in one sense, even though there was an obvious disagreement. I'm sure things will work out. And try not to hold the parents' reactions against them too much. As much as it sucks that they weren't scolding their child for the treatment of the cat (but then again, who knows what they said to her later), I understand that they were offended by a threat to their child. Who wouldn't be?
And just to agree with Tkitty & others... If you want to discourage violent, aggressive behavior, I believe that spanking has the opposite effect on a child. Spanking really pisses me off. I think it shows that you can accomplish something--or get your way--with violence. There are much better ways to punish & teach (which is the most important part...) your kids if they are behaving in a way you don't like.
Two wrongs don't make a right. It seems like that would serve only to perpetuate the problem; abusing a child is often why children begin abusing animals in the first place. Being powerless sucks, whether you're a kid, or an animal.
I don't want to be offensive, but I feel like threatening violence is like taking 2 huge steps back for veg*nism. I mean, that girl probably did that out of ignorance and how she was raised...the same way you wouldn't beat an animal for hurting another animal, you shouldn't threat to hurt other people (especially children) for what they do to other living things. Informing in a calm manner will always be the better way to go.
But I guess it was a shocking thing to see outright violence to an animal like that
Yes and YES. Are you any better than the animal-abuser if you're a child-abuser? I'd posit that you're actually worse. Why is it that animal cruelty is not ok, but human cruelty is fine? I really don't get that. Threats of force and violence can be psychologically damaging to an 11 year old. Shocking or not, it's wrong.
By the way, 3Nails, threatening a physical beating is assault, and I think it's punishable with a prison term and a large fine. It's not offensive; it's an active threat to your child. You're not being impolite; you're threatening bodily harm. If this were my kid, I'd probably see if I could have you arrested.
The fact that an adult would even think of threatening violence on someone else's child is disgusting. I believe that spanking is a gray area. I had to be spanked to get some things into my head. I feel like it was the only way I was going to learn a couple pretty serious lessons, but the important thing is that my parents taught me those lessons. You're not the kid's parent, and you have no right to even think about beating the kid. You should be ashamed.
How do you know that with all that adrenaline coursing through your body that you would've been able to hold yourself back? You already admitted that you were out of control. If the mother hadn't stepped in, you might have kicked the crap out of an 11 year old.
The fact that an adult would even think of threatening violence on someone else's child is disgusting.
3nails is a minor also.
Doesn't make it better or worse but we were all a bit more driven by our emotions when we were kids.
The fact that an adult would even think of threatening violence on someone else's child is disgusting.
3nails is a minor also.
Doesn't make it better or worse but we were all a bit more driven by our emotions when we were kids.
Thanks for correcting me there. I guess I flipped out a little myself and just stopped reading near the end.
3Nails, I'm sorry I was harsh... but violence is a terrible terrible way to solve issues. I get rather vocal in such situations.
It's like that animal-rights terrorist Rod Coronado. Where does he get off comparing himself to Gandhi and Dr. King???
I don't know how I would have reacted if I had been in the OP's shoes. But I see all around me that MANY parents seem to be incapable of disciplining their kids. They seem to think they are their kids "friends" and not their parents. No boundaries. Kids are allowed to scream, kick, hit etc. and NOTHING happens, other than a few words that don't seem to make any impact. Hitting animals is simply unacceptable and at 11 (!) years, this kid should have known better. If I had witnessed this, I would have talked to whoever is in charge of this operation and told them what happened and if it happened again, I would ask to have the kid banned, at least for a certain time, to show that actions such as abusing animals have consequences.
Well, I must say that this has turned into an interesting thread!
To address the posters that were absolutely disgusted with me threatening another minor with bodily harm-I'm don't think I put it in the original post, but I am NOT a violent person. The people at my barn know this, and that's probably part of the reason why nothing else has come of this situation. This doens't justify the seriousness of my wording in my threat, but I think that it was obvious that I had no intentions of going after the kid.
Truth be told, I've never especially liked the girl. I've never been mean or aggressive towards her, I've just never liked her. She's very snobby, cops an attitude with everyone (including her parents), backtalks them, and cries when things don't go her way. I wasn't raised like that; in my household, I respected my parents. Things didn't always go my way, and that was okay because that's life. Obviously, my values clashed with theirs.
The mother of the child isn't my favorite person either, she never was. She's got a hot-cold attitude that changes at the drop of a hat, and yells at her daughter and her husband. Anywho, I've always been nice to her as well, and have no plans to change that now.
Honestly, I feel sorry for the dad/husband in that family sometimes. He's the only sane one of the trio, and has always been very courteous and respectful to me. The three of them are relatively new to riding and horses, and he's really the only one that truly listens to any suggestions that I've given them. (I'm by no means an expert, but I've been riding for longer that their daughter's been alive.)
Anyway...thanks to all those who posted that they would've reacted the same way that I did. It's good to know that I'm not the only one.
it certainly sounds like you have your heart in the right place and good for you for looking out for this cat!
....
Anyway...thanks to all those who posted that they would've reacted the same way that I did. It's good to know that I'm not the only one.
Unfortunately you suffer from, or are showing the early signs of, an almost incurable disease called "foot-in-mouth". I suffer from this myself. There are no meds you can take, but be warned alcohol can greatly amplify the symptoms of "foot-in-mouth." Surgury is an option, but having your mouth stitched shut, makes other activities like eating rather difficult. I haven't found a support group yet either, let me know if you find one.
Later,
K^2
Yeah, I agree with hespedal. If anybody yelled at and threatened my kid, there would be PROBLEMS.
Even if it was kicking the shit out of a defensless animal, give me a break.
3nails, I think that I would have responded the exact same way you did, except I wouldn't have apoligized afterwords. The kid had no right to beat a cat! I think I would have gone berzerk. I imagine if I saw such a thing happen I would loose my tember too. If the parents got mad at you say that you mean exactly what you say becuase animal abuse has no place in this barn! Some people are so stupid, and if the child was beating the cat that means that the parents aren't teaching the kid respect for animals!
The kid needs a good spanking if you ask me. If I would have done that as kid I would have gotten a leather belt to a bare bottom. But then again...I hate kids...love animals...who am I to talk? Now if the cat was one of my own, I would have probably beaten the stupid kid to a jellied pulp! Nobody touches any of my babies without getting what they deserve from me. I am very sensitive when it comes to cats.
With you 100%.
I really don't think spanking the kid would help anything...
Might help it remember not to beat a cat for a start.
I really don't think spanking the kid would help anything...
Might help it remember not to beat a cat for a start.
Or it would give the impression that violence helps to get a message across... When you're trying to teach your kid not to be violent, why the hell would you use VIOLENCE as a method?! "Do as I say, not as I do"?? Yeah, okay. >:(
I really don't think spanking the kid would help anything...
Might help it remember not to beat a cat for a start.
Or it would give the impression that violence helps to get a message across... When you're trying to teach your kid not to be violent, why the hell would you use VIOLENCE as a method?! "Do as I say, not as I do"?? Yeah, okay. >:(
exactly. if you saw your child slapping an animal, yes you would get angry but you would not beat your child in return saying "this is how the cat feels" while your child is howling in pain. yeah, they would see how the cat feels, but you would also be perpetuating what they obviously already have in their heads as 'when someone does something you don't like, hit them'
and if someone ELSE threatened my child? i would be very very pissed.
If an 11 year old is hitting defenseless animals the parents are obviously not doing their job.
If a toddler or small child did this, that would be one thing... but if a kid that age does it, it either has been taught that this is ok behaviour by someone or else it has never been disciplined. If that had been my kid, it would be grounded.
If an 11 year old is hitting defenseless animals the parents are obviously not doing their job.
If a toddler or small child did this, that would be one thing... but if a kid that age does it, it either has been taught that this is ok behaviour by someone or else it has never been disciplined. If that had been my kid, it would be grounded.
i'm not saying there is anything wrong with punishing the child. but it is the parents place to do that, and someone else threatening harm is just putting them on the defense for their daughter who they need to punish, not side with.
I really don't think spanking the kid would help anything...
Might help it remember not to beat a cat for a start.
Actually, spanking is probably what taught her to hit the cat. Think about it. She thought the cat was doing something bad. At home, when she does something bad, she probably gets spanked. It was a natural connection this child made. So, beating her for hitting the cat is not going to tell her "don't beat the cat" ... it's going to tell her "this is how we solve problems."
There is absolutely no rationalization that makes it OK for a person to beat a child or to threaten to do so.
Good point.
Yeah, I agree with hespedal. If anybody yelled at and threatened my kid, there would be PROBLEMS.
Even if it was kicking the shit out of a defensless animal, give me a break.
First of all, my children ARE NOT "it"s. And NO MATTER WHAT my child will not be threatened or yelled at by anyone.
I have to confess first of all to not wading through all the replies... I'm feeling lazy.
It seems to me that a ton of "animal lovers" are talking only about domestic animals. Poor cat, being beaten by the kid... but also poor mice, squirrels, and birds. Part of being a pet owner is the responsibility to keep it from killing animals; in the cases of farm cats and other animals kept expressly for the purpose of harming animals, the case becomes even more distressing. I understand the child's distress, although it is sad that it manifested through abuse of the animal.
The cat was doing what cats do-- 100% of the time when they are able. Does that make it right that there are cats roaming free to shred the wildlife in the area? Not so much.
I do so much understand your reaction, though. I am often the crazy lady shouting at people to get their dart-throwing teenagers / duck-chasing brats / dogs the hell away from the wildlife at parks and so forth. And yes, I always wonder if I'm in deep trouble.
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