what types of vegan activism work the best?
so we saw what happened on facebook. yup. does that stuff help? or make things worse. i know it certainly gets some steam off. you know, just aruging about that stuff, making your point. but what types of activism have worked the best for you folks? i've found that tabling works really well, but it only seems to be a possibility at college. Where would I go table now? haha, down in the town square? At wal mart?
maybe independent vegan bake sales, not with a table, but have a sign up sheet at your work where people can order a dozen vegan cookies for 5 dollars, and the money will go to the local animal shelter. then slip in some information about veganism, AR, enviornment, and health info.
Anyways. just brainstorming here. I kind of miss the activism stuff I did at college, just wondering what people do now that works.
I dunno himkelsi...I wonder about this. I find myself sucked in to radio/tv shows where people are PASSIONATELY ranting about political views that I completely disagree with and saying bizarrely ludicrous things and it's entertaining - I keep listening/watching. It makes me wish that people I agree with would do that. Sometimes I think we're so worried about being reasonable and logical and backing things up with facts - but why? Why not burst into something like that facebook discussion with something bizarre like, "People who eat meet think that America is a Muslim country and like to shake babies and are contributing to the rise in blood diamonds." Does that help, or is it just a personal release??
haha I think both!
I think breaking out in a bold statement helps us. When I hold things back, like when my co worker says that i dont eat anything other than rabbit food, i regret it later. Sometimes I wish I had the courage to just go "yap yap yap" back, just to keep her quiet. UGH! Maybe people like that are so stubborn that they'll never go vegan and it isnt even worth our time and energy and we should just go "yap yap yap" to keep our sanity and shut them up. hmmmm. I'm gonna think about that. heh.
imho, people are most accepting when you are completely accepting of their lifestyle. no matter what they will know about it, whether you are quietly discussing/explaining or whether you are telling them how wrong they are. if they are interested i think they would look into it no matter what BUT i believe that people who see a group as a lot of angry/hating of other ways/inhospitable group will have more problems joining for fear of becoming that way themselves/other people seeing them as that. i personally was inspired to veganism by someone who wasn't even vegan who just talked a little about their dietary habits and then i looked into it myself...
i don't know, but i don't want all omnivores mad at me for trying to convert them. besides, i really don't believe that we can change anyone, they have to change themselves ultimately. all we can do is provide information, it is your decision if you want to do that militantly or in a kind manner.
hiimkelsi, before i even clicked on the thread i was thinking "don't post on facebook!" that whole thing was a huge mistake on my part, mostly because i don't think i even helped anyone consider the option of going vegan, and now people are talking about shooting me in the knees.
i think probably the best way to help people consider veganism is on a one to one basis. it starts with family and friends. they already trust you and you can answer questions that they have as they learn more about the different issues associated with the cause.
Yes, yes, I would not call myself a "militant" vegan and my coworkers, friends, family have commented that I'm not oppressive, etc. So I got some kumbaya vibes going on....but really? Really. Can't I bust out with ONE or TWELVE graphic posters from "Vegan Starter Kit?" Pleeeaaassseeee. I'm not trying to persuade - I want to shock the hell out of people. I want to point out that they can't possibly think that I'm taking them seriously.
Yes, yes, I would not call myself a "militant" vegan and my coworkers, friends, family have commented that I'm not oppressive, etc. So I got some kumbaya vibes going on....but really? Really. Can't I bust out with ONE or TWELVE graphic posters from "Vegan Starter Kit?" Pleeeaaassseeee. I'm not trying to persuade - I want to shock the hell out of people. I want to point out that they can't possibly think that I'm taking them seriously.
wellll... i did make my 'animal lover' roomie watch meet your meat. she still isn't vegan :(
hiimkelsi, before i even clicked on the thread i was thinking "don't post on facebook!" that whole thing was a huge mistake on my part, mostly because i don't think i even helped anyone consider the option of going vegan, and now people are talking about shooting me in the knees.
i think probably the best way to help people consider veganism is on a one to one basis. it starts with family and friends. they already trust you and you can answer questions that they have as they learn more about the different issues associated with the cause.
thats how I got myself into angry vegan vs. omni arguments! I politely stated something, or asked a question, and it quickly turns into an argument. hmph. is it my fault? is it other faults? i dont know. crazy stuff, people, and the internet...
Okay so I really thought that facebook topic was a lost cause. I had pretty much given up on it, but when I went back for my last look-see, the last post was from a vegetarian who had it in for poor Frances, and just his choice of words and anger about the whole thing really bothered me. So I just responded to him simply with "chill", apparently that one word got to him enough that he messaged me that he was, in fact, "chill". I told him that I didn't think the anger and cursing were very warranted for Frances's request for vegan condoms and that she had not attacked anyone personally, so I didn't understand why people were so defensive. We had a very civil messagefest that led him to say that he had probably been wrong in the way he responded
And I don't know, but it made me feel like something had been accomplished and he probably thought about it a little more than he would have before The Great Facebook Vegan Condom Debate '07.
Okay so I really thought that facebook topic was a lost cause. I had pretty much given up on it, but when I went back for my last look-see, the last post was from a vegetarian who had it in for poor Frances, and just his choice of words and anger about the whole thing really bothered me. So I just responded to him simply with "chill", apparently that one word got to him enough that he messaged me that he was, in fact, "chill". I told him that I didn't think the anger and cursing were very warranted for Frances's request for vegan condoms and that she had not attacked anyone personally, so I didn't understand why people were so defensive. We had a very civil messagefest that led him to say that he had probably been wrong in the way he responded
And I don't know, but it made me feel like something had been accomplished and he probably thought about it a little more than he would have before The Great Facebook Vegan Condom Debate '07.
yay! thanks for the behind the scenes information. i like the name you gave it. heh. I guess things do work out better when its more one on one, not like the internet is ever really a one on one personal place to talk. but its better than a message board type thing.
From lots of experience (I have been a vegan for over 16 years & was a militant vegan for the first two), what works the best is to walk your talk.
In fact, talking about it scares people off. When I stopped talking about things, my family got less defensive. Then...I started cooking professionally-decadent & fresh vegan yummies. That was when people started to convert!! Also, I was healthier & stronger as a vegan, and made them food that was way better than the crap they were used to!!
:)
I'm not sure which way is best, but I definitely think that even butting our heads against the wall a la the Facebook thing is better than nothing. For every person who responds, there are ten who just read without responding. And those are the ones who are probably thinking more about what they read. Many people who previously didn't know that condoms contained dead animals are now aware. And I bet many people came away influenced, to whatever small degree, toward an interest in animal welfare. It especially helps that the other side was so ridiculous and ours stayed relatively cool and rational.
And I think that those sorts of arguments can have a positive effect even on the people who strongly disagree. It forces them to at least think about the issues a little bit.
People tend to see arguments as hopeless because no argument ever seems to end with one of the participants publicly and instantly switching sides. It's true that's extremely rare. But I think it's simplistic to assume that means that the argument did not bring the person any closer toward changing her views. Even if someone continues to disagree at the argument's end, they may come away with an awareness, on whatever level, that their reasoning did not fully support their point. Someone who resorts to angry cursing and namecalling tends to be aware, on whatever level, that they had to resort to those techniques.
tl;dr: It's really hard to figure out what's the best form of "vegangelism", but I think ANY form is always better than silence. At heart, people are just human-hear-human-believe sorts of creatures; if they hear a message enough times, it'll raise their level of credence in that message. The advertising industry makes use of this fact, with great success. And at the very least, awareness of the issues is created in cases like the Facebook fiasco.
I'm not sure which way is best, but I definitely think that even butting our heads against the wall a la the Facebook thing is better than nothing. For every person who responds, there are ten who just read without responding. And those are the ones who are probably thinking more about what they read. Many people who previously didn't know that condoms contained dead animals are now aware. And I bet many people came away influenced, to whatever small degree, toward an interest in animal welfare. It especially helps that the other side was so ridiculous and ours stayed relatively cool and rational.
And I think that those sorts of arguments can have a positive effect even on the people who strongly disagree. It forces them to at least think about the issues a little bit.
People tend to see arguments as hopeless because no argument ever seems to end with one of the participants publicly and instantly switching sides. It's true that's extremely rare. But I think it's simplistic to assume that means that the argument did not bring the person any closer toward changing her views. Even if someone continues to disagree at the argument's end, they may come away with an awareness, on whatever level, that their reasoning did not fully support their point. Someone who resorts to angry cursing and namecalling tends to be aware, on whatever level, that they had to resort to those techniques.
tl;dr: It's really hard to figure out what's the best form of "vegangelism", but I think ANY form is always better than silence. At heart, people are just human-hear-human-believe sorts of creatures; if they hear a message enough times, it'll raise their level of credence in that message. The advertising industry makes use of this fact, with great success. And at the very least, awareness of the issues is created in cases like the Facebook fiasco.
Cephi,
I agree with everything you had to say here. I'm sure most of those posting and reading did not even know that things like vegan condoms exist in this world. Hopefully there are a few that had their cells stimulated enough to give it a thought somewhere down the road. I think most posting and arguing there probably eat Egg McMuffins and Big Macs 5 or 6 times a week. They are SO far from thinking or worrying about using vegan protection for sex when they have yet to find any moral reasons to stop eating dead flesh. But hell....I ate crap back in college too.....maybe a few seeds were planted. If even ONE person changed or someday changes their mind in the future...or just decides to read up a bit more about veganism...then it was worth it.
Homedude is now talking about going vegan, so either I'm one persuasive human being OR that discussion topic made him think a little more
We all know that it was me and my powers of persuasion. Send me your tired, weak, and omnivorous
Homedude is now talking about going vegan, so either I'm one persuasive human being OR that discussion topic made him think a little more
We all know that it was me and my powers of persuasion. Send me your tired, weak, and omnivorous
yay!! thats so awesome! hopefully it'll work out for him. did you tell him about vegweb? will he be a new member and come see our page long discussions about that argument? haha.
hahaha how creepy would that be for him?
I'm now convinced that "arguing" with people in a calm way isn't as bad as I once thought. There was another topic started by some chick about the original topic (good god) and how mad she was over it, I responded to her too...it took a few minutes out of my life, but I ended up getting a message from her too! She isn't saying she was completely wrong in thinking the original post was bad (I think lime green herself admitted that she could've stated it better to begin with) but that she shouldn't have responded in the way she had. She apologized if she had offended me in her post and ended up deleting everything she said....
I think the initial "I LOVE EATING COWS! ANIMALS DON'T HAVE FEELINGS!! I HEART MEAT LOL" response is what you get from young people who eat meat...but once you start talking to them and being reasonable, they'll realize you're not just a pretentious jerk and try and listen to what you have to say. I still don't think this particular girl "gets" the whole vegan condom thing, but I bet she'll put more thought into it now that it's more than a Vegans Vs. Omnivores insultfeset. The key has to be for every veg*n to be as informed as possible before engaging in the battle....and never link to a peta website
...Send me your tired, weak, and omnivorous
what, they have to be tired and weak before you can break them?
lol, jk.
(ok, sorry. i always tell dumb jokes online and no one gets them, not only because my sense of humor is off and weird but because no one can hear my tone... sorry guys.)
I really do believe the best approach is to educate with compassion, love, and empathy. It's best to convey the facts with the opponent's best interest in mind. Create a win-win situation. If your goal is to persuade people to become vegan, direct angry attacks rarely ever go over well. People just end up getting defensive and covering their ears (dat's right...they click the IGNORE button on your ass!...heh, heh ;D).
Not that I practice educating with compassion, love, and empathy (I suppose that's obvious). I should. I wish I did. Maybe I will one day. My problem is that I hate most of humanity ;D.
Sometimes, however, I do believe angry vegan rants can influence certain people. I know that some of the angry vegans on this board have opened my eyes to certain things over past eight or so months that I've been acquainted with Vegweb.
(Hespedal, your joke was funny--I like your sense of humor! ;))
*bump*
The best kind of activism is eating veg*n at large conferences! I've been gone for the last week at a conference in DC with 2000 people! When the kitchen has to make one thing for 2000 people, yes, they're going to get rubbery chicken with cold-used-to-be-melted-cheese on limp lettuce for lunch. What does the vegan get? Marinated portabello wrapped in sliced, grilled zucchini topped by a rustic tomato sauce! :D
The next morning while others were pushing their rubbery eggs and bacon around their plates I was chowing down on a PILE of figs, raspberries, canteloupe, pineapple, watermelon and blackberries topped with fresh mint. One woman pipes up with, "Gee, you always get the best meals here...."
Yup. Lead by example :) So, so easy to make veg food look appetizing when the cook's only making four of them :)
(and then I'll bust out some graphic pics of what their "food" looked like before it ended up on their plates... :o.)
...Send me your tired, weak, and omnivorous
what, they have to be tired and weak before you can break them?
lol, jk.
yes, yes they do...I'm not much for "work" so I just break those with barely a will to live. And then I call them vegan and all is good
I can do it with anything, weak people...weak animals..rocks
*bump*
The best kind of activism is eating veg*n at large conferences! I've been gone for the last week at a conference in DC with 2000 people! When the kitchen has to make one thing for 2000 people, yes, they're going to get rubbery chicken with cold-used-to-be-melted-cheese on limp lettuce for lunch. What does the vegan get? Marinated portabello wrapped in sliced, grilled zucchini topped by a rustic tomato sauce! :D
The next morning while others were pushing their rubbery eggs and bacon around their plates I was chowing down on a PILE of figs, raspberries, canteloupe, pineapple, watermelon and blackberries topped with fresh mint. One woman pipes up with, "Gee, you always get the best meals here...."
Yup. Lead by example :) So, so easy to make veg food look appetizing when the cook's only making four of them :)
(and then I'll bust out some graphic pics of what their "food" looked like before it ended up on their plates... :o.)
thats awesome!!! the same thing happened to me when i went to germany on a school trip in 10th grade, but i was one of the meat eaters and every night envied the vegetarians. had i thought about saying that i was vegetarian just to get better foods? yes, but i was too shy to make such a big statement randomly one day on a pre planned trip with 40 people in germany. hehe. ohwell. luckily ill never make that mistake again!