Porn
Posted by ledzepfan12 on Jul 24, 2008 · Member since Jan 2007 · 675 posts
What do you all think of it? I won't lie. I've looked at a fair amount, mostly out of sheer curiosity, "do these girls actually like doing this?" and "guys actually love looking at this stuff" type looking. I really hope real sex isn't like this (I'm a virgin) and that guys don't expect girls to do that type of stuff in real life.
I don't know, I don't want to do my whole rant, because I'm sure most of you will say what I want to rant.
Discuss
ledzepfan,
It seems to me that you are upset about the mistreatment and objectification of women by men.
I think kmk's point is that erotica in general is a fun and healthy expression. I don't think any of us support pornography that would be considered criminal (slavery, pedophilia, etc...)
Yes. And to add, I disapprove of the stigma that surrounds women sex workers because of those negative associations.
Jeez, VS, you are nice and to the point! I need to work on my brevity skills. ;D
Sorry KMK--I don't have a slew of studies to qualify that there are women, minors, men, etc. being used involitarry in the industry--honestly it's not a subject I spend too much time contempalting or researching. I suppose I assumed that some were as I was thinking on a more global basis--there are not always safty laws or regulations in palce to protect people in this industry in other countries.
I feel like you are lumping pornography, sex trafficking, prostitution, and all other "industries" involving "sex trade" of any kind together. I mean, of course there are people exploited for the sake of any of these (and some are exploitative by definition). No doubt about it. But to say, "Porn exploits women" is not entirely accurate. Does that happen? Yes. But is there a whole, huge army of women who choose to work in pornography and find it power in that? Who embrace it and enjoy the opportunity to express their sexuality? Hell yes! The very presumption that any women involved in producing pornographic imagery are doing so against their will reveals our latent sexism and discomfort with female sexuality. And that's a huge problem.
As I have already admitted--I am not a rhodes scholar when it comes to porn but I also don't think I'm lumping in all illeagle forms of sex trade with the porn industry. I don't think it's a far stretch to say that women (and others) can and are exploited by this industry. It happens--just as people really enjoying what they are doing happens. That's all I'm saying.
OK, I see what you are saying. It just sounded like you were saying that all pornography was inherently exploitative. Or I just incorrectly inferred it. Gotchya!
Okay, I know I said I was done, but I do want to state my postition once and for all. I do think that many women get into porn and are treated fairly and love it and everything for them is happiness and sunshine. But I think there are definately women who get into it for the wrong reasons, have very bad expiences, there are negative forces in the industry. I never said all porn exploits, objectifies and degrades all women in all forms and I don't believe that to be true. I don't think that porn is inherently bad and that people shouldn't enjoy sex or pornography. I think that the sex industry is mainly composed of who do enjoy their job. I think porn can be a healthy and fun thing, like others here, I never said otherwise. I don't think people who do porn or erotica are bad people or that what they do is wrong. I have no issues with porn aside from that it makes it look like its the best job ever and life should be one big orgy and nothing bad ever happens to these people as a result of there occupation. I think that there is truth that its not all rainbows and sunshine and everyone who does porn is living the dream being paid to have sex.
lzp,
After reading your initial post I understand where you are coming from. If you are a virgin curious about sex and what it is "really" like I totally get the fact that the standard All American porn might be freaking you out. don't worry, no one will expect you to have sex with the whole football team!
I assure you, "real" sex is not like that...but it could be if that's what you wanted....it is your life and your sex. If you are curious about sex in general I would suggest reading or watching material designed by women for women. Focus on information that is empowering and let the other stuff be what it is.
Oh, totally! Look at you, VS, such the ambassador! Well done. Of COURSE sex does not have to be like the porn you've seen. Don't worry about that! My issue is porn getting this general bad rap and being swept away under the rug as something evil. It's TOTALLY up to you what you want to do with it.
i really like porn when it has an artistic side. i met a girl, a really sweet, cute girl, a couple months later a friend of mine shows me her video. shes works in bondage making videos. its amazingly beautiful. very minimal background, just her and a guy. i can see how someone else watching it though, could look at it and think... hmmm... shes tied up, being hit, slapped, bit, screaming while this guy has his clothes on doing this stuff to her.... how is this positive? maybe it was just because i was connected and josh told me that she just LOVES her job. it gets her off, she gets paid for it, and everyone in her company is so supportive of her and what she likes. and that her sexuality is turned into an art form. i think its beautiful. i would love to find more porn like that. i think the reason that josh showed me the video is because we were talking about bondage, i did a workshop at sex fest (WOOT!) and sat in on one about bondage, it was so informative and seemed so incredibly positive. it is all about making people feel good and communication. but i can totally see from an outsiders perspective that it could seem degrading when its really the total opposite.
i am not much of a debater, but i just wanted to tell that story.
i did a workshop at sex fest (WOOT!) and sat in on one about bondage
Oh fun! Bondage is another one that gets a really bad reputation and is misunderstood a lot.
ledzepfan,
It seems to me that you are upset about the mistreatment and objectification of women by men.
I think kmk's point is that erotica in general is a fun and healthy expression. I don't think any of us support pornography that would be considered criminal (slavery, pedophilia, etc...)
Yes. And to add, I disapprove of the stigma that surrounds women sex workers because of those negative associations.
Jeez, VS, you are nice and to the point! I need to work on my brevity skills. ;D
I agree. I think people have a huge misconception when it comes to porn. It irks me when a porn worker automatically gets labeled a "slut" or "whore" etc just because they are Working in that industry. If a woman/man feels empowered to get involved in that line of work and likes what s/he is doing then I really don't see anything wrong with it.
Bondage? Did somebody say bondage?
I love bondage! Really tight bondage..
Ive done about 4 photoshoots with this guy i actually met on AOL (heh) and they were some of the funnest times Ive ever had (and coolest pictures).. I love how really tight ropes feel on naked skin.. i just thought i'd throw that out there :biggrin:
Bondage? Did somebody say bondage?
I love bondage! Really tight bondage..
Ive done about 4 photoshoots with this guy i actually met on AOL (heh) and they were some of the funnest times Ive ever had (and coolest pictures).. I love how really tight ropes feel on naked skin.. i just thought i'd throw that out there :biggrin:
:-* As I read this thread I just kept thinking where is Oktokrewl when we need her opinion! Thank you for providing some much needed perspective.
Sexual expression = awesomeness. That includes porn. But sexual expression that's really violence against and disempowers women (reflecting the greater cultural norm of women being devalued) = not good.
Sexual expression = awesomeness. That includes porn. But sexual expression that's really violence against and disempowers women (reflecting the greater cultural norm of women being devalued) = not good.
Bondage isn't just "let me tie this woman up and have my way with her." Healthy S&M and the like just means doing whatever you and your partner like. Some women like to be tied up. Some men liked to be tied up. And people with healthy notions of how men and women should be respected can participate in that type of play without any negative consequences whatsoever. Again, it's all about communication and being open about sex.
for all of you into erotica, have you seen Micheal Mannings work? does alot of cool photography, art etc. he's on my myspace page, and of course he has his own website.
Does anyone else own Totally Herotica? Thoughts?
No, but I had to look it up. I read hero-tica, not her-otica. I'm still not sure what "herotica" is. Is it erotica for women? How do people know that women like a different kind of erotica than men?
Porn, or as I like to say pr0n. If its healthy, positive and interesting to you, I say, enjoy it. Pr0n comes in many flavors; from movies to pictures to literature to erotic dancing. It should interest you, arouse your curiosity and libido. If it doesn't, for any reason, then move on.
When I was younger I thought certain things were just inherently 'dirty', like masturbation and porn. As I got older I realized it is all in what you think of it. So my labeling something as dirty or wrong without understanding what they were to me was limiting and foolish. If it harms no one, then there is no reason to abstain or beat yourself up for enjoying it. It took me a long time to get to this point but I am sure some of you very enlightened VW'ers are already there.
Personally I think that men are more visual which is why most movies or photos are very male centric. Women are more mental and find things like romance novels or erotica to be more in line with what they feel is right for them. Seeing a blatant picture of a couple engaged in bondage is just a brief idea, but reading of the relationship, build up, experience and climax gives a much more satisfying idea, for me anyways.
Exploitation, abuse, coercion, and fraud are bad things but they can be present in any and every industry. Not just the broad realm of 'porn'. There is no warning label "Produced with drugged actors against their will!" to be seen. Nor will you ever find a label proclaiming someones complete enjoyment of their job. This is true for ANY industry. Just those in the sex industry get portrayed as criminals. No one is saying that the abuse is a good thing. But the products for the sake of personal enjoyment can be found enjoyable.
Enjoy your sexuality. Enjoy images or words or expressions of sexuality. Should you come across something you dislike, simply turn it off, leave, put it away and move on. Should someone be more tuned into porn than you, the relationship needs help OR they are simply looking into something that they might be interested in. Either something to expand into your relationship or if it has been shot down already their interest but not yours. Talk to your partner openly and honestly, if what they are doing (going to a strip club or watching movies) is hurtful in your eyes, perhaps finding why they do it would be beneficial. Ask without prejudice or censure and be honest. Try it with them, maybe, to see if you would be interested in joining them.
All that said, I am a very sexual person. I like sex, I like porn, I like flirting and seeing attractive (to me) people. Sure I have run across things I dislike but honestly, I just make a mental note and avoid it. Real sex should be about communication, enjoyment and mutual pleasure.
:)>>> Cali :)>>>
Sexual expression = awesomeness. That includes porn. But sexual expression that's really violence against and disempowers women (reflecting the greater cultural norm of women being devalued) = not good.
Bondage isn't just "let me tie this woman up and have my way with her." Healthy S&M and the like just means doing whatever you and your partner like. Some women like to be tied up. Some men liked to be tied up. And people with healthy notions of how men and women should be respected can participate in that type of play without any negative consequences whatsoever. Again, it's all about communication and being open about sex.
Yes! Yes! Yes! (I had to, I'm sorry)
D'accord - which means, "ok" or "agreed" in french. KMK, I am in absolutely agreement with what you're saying. The problem's in the cultural context, not in the acts (bondage, porn, nude photography, etc.) themselves.
I have a cool book called 30 Porn star Portraits by Timothy Greenfield-Sanders. he photographs them naked and then again in the exact same pose with clothes on. there is short bio about each one and it makes you realize that they aren't all dumb bimbo's. some have master's degrees and work for some great causes.
Yes! Yes! Yes! (I had to, I'm sorry)
*snicker*
D'accord - which means, "ok" or "agreed" in french. KMK, I am in absolutely agreement with what you're saying. The problem's in the cultural context, not in the acts (bondage, porn, nude photography, etc.) themselves.
Oh OK, I see what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying! :)
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