done, in the hope of peace between the sects

especially since someone already complained about me

Who would do such a thing?!?!

:devilsmile: :devilwink:

Tell them to :stfu:

god, I love these smilies.

I think that people are so cultivated to many cruel habits and they become numb/resistant to any opposing information. It is hard for many people to admit that they have been duped or flat out lied to for their entire lives. This goes for many issues in addition to nutrition. Perhaps, instead of being pissed off like I was, they reject the new information and prefer to stay in the dark. It is much easier not to know something than it is to feel like you must suddenly take personal responsibility. Plus, change is a hard, slow process......even though it is essential.

there is some truth to this, because an uneducated vegetarian most likely believes theyre doing far less harm drinking milk and eating eggs than consuming meat. Where we all pretty much know by now that they are doing just as much (or maybe more), seeing at supporting dairy supports the veal industry, and egg laying hens have probably the shittiest of lives outside Bile Bears and Foi Gras Geese

Adam, I know I should just let this go, but I can't because the complete illogic of what you are suggesting cannot be ignored.  

The comment quoted above makes sense if you assume that the average vegetarian takes a Standard American Diet and replaces all of the meat/poultry/fish components with dairy products and eggs. So let's say just for argument's sake that the SAD is, in terms of calorie consumption, 40% meat, 20% dairy, and 40% fruits, vegetables and carbohydrates (mostly french fries).  Under your theory, the O/L vegetarian would replace the 40% meat part with dairy products and their diet would become 60% dairy and 40% fruits, veggies and carbohydrates.

I think we all know that a well-balanced vegetarian diet does not follow those breakdowns.  In a well-balanced, veg diet, the meat elements are replaced with a diverse group of nutrient-rich grains, legumes and nuts, and the vegetable portion of the diet also significantly increases as well versus what everyone else is eating. And while a veg diet--if adopted by everyone--may not result in a significant decrease in chickens and dairy cows, it definitely would impact the millions of cattle, pigs and sheep raised each each year and the billions of tons of waste those animals generate. In addition, a vegetarian diet would have a positive impact on the ecological health of the oceans and rivers where fishing activities (including fish farming) are creating havoc with the indigenous wildlife populations.

Comments that suggest that vegetarians are the same as omnis, or that they are "misguided"  or that their efforts are "at least doing something" garner offense because they belittle and demean the vast amount of effort it takes even to be "just vegetarian" in this incredibly carnivorous society.

So to sum up:

Everyone tips their hats to vegans.  I mean that sincerely. It is really really hard to be vegan and live in mainstream society and harder still to raise a vegan child. I think everyone recognizes the vast amount of effort it takes and admires your commitment to your beliefs.

Vegetarians struggle with many of the same obstacles as vegans. It is an easier path, since there are more things to choose from in the world outisde, but it is still a big fat pain in the butt.  Our families still think we're crazy and most restaurant entrees are off limits as well.  And we do have a positive impact on the environment as well as helping to increase demands for products that benefit vegans and non vegans like.
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So can we just cut this out?  Most people who come here do so for support and guidance, not to be judged.

The stupidest groups of people I've ever met are rigid animal-rights activist vegetarians.  I can not stand them....so hypocritical. Bitch if you're eating eggs and drinking cows milk, the animal who gave that up lived in squalor and was senselessly murdered after their production went down.  And their offspring?  Oh if they're the wrong gender they're killed too!

And cheese?  Some cheese isn't even vegetarian, as it contains enzymes from animal parts to coagulate.  But if you tell these facts to them they do not change, and keep on believing how awesome they are. >:(

    I can appreciate your concern for animals, but I think this attitude can actually hurt MORE animals in the long run. That is by deterring away some of the more sensitive  activists  (sensitive to your negetivity) by not acknowledging or appreciating the steps and efforts that they DO perform. The way that their schools and others mislead/misguide them, I believe that we as caring veg*ns should have some sympathy about their victimization and offer them some understanding. What you perceive as hypocracy could largly/mainly be ignorance - a lack of education. They have already shown that they are a cut above the majority of this country, and they most likely have some kind of concern for animals or why would they be activists? Who do you consider the more villainous, - a person who does virtually nothing, or somone who at least has made some effort?

I agree with giving credit for positive steps forward--I run a campus based AR group and I know we accept all--vegans, vegetarians, omnis--who ever wants to help we'll take! From my experiences people that are omni join because they think they are going to help domestic animals like cats and dogs--untill we break out meat your meat and get them out on the protest lines! They (omnis) usually switch over to vegetarian or vegan quickly after that, once they are educated to the cause. Bashing people because they have not been properly educated about all areas of animal cruelty is hatefull and harmfull. Don't forget that everyone starts somewhere--did all of you turn in to perfect vegans over night? It's a process and beyond that, it's an individule effort--we have to make these positive steps on our own and when we are ready.

Yes, tofuttibreak has me right.  I can't stand the people on the protest line next to me shouting BOOO FACTORY FARMING and then turn around and eat macaroni&cheese and go out for icecream.  How do they sleep at night?! 

So can we just cut this out?  Most people who come here do so for support and guidance, not to be judged.

this is the "free for all" thread.  silly jkl.  ;)

    Ok lg, I/we can try to remember to not call YOU  by those descriptions since you've stated more specifically what your diet is.

good.  do it!  ;) 

I am considering adopting one because I am now feeding my dogs a homemade diet, which occassionally includes eggs, and I figure, if they must eat eggs and animal products (as well as tofu and a shitload of veggies and grains), then I might as well get it there.

FWIW, I think that this is a fine idea, AmandaBrooke.  I myself am very conflicted on the dog food issue.  :-\

On the topic at hand, I'm not going to judge anyone for being a vegetarian nor an omnivore.  I was a vegetarian for over ten years before I switched to vegan and I was an omnivore for twenty-odd years before that.  But let's face it, if we didn't think that veganism was better than those other two options, then we wouldn't be vegan.  That said, I don't think that it makes me a better person than non-vegans.  It just means that I think that this particular choice that I have made is a better one.  There are so many people in the world who are better than me in so many ways.  This one thing doesn't make up for all that.

Take, for instance, animal rights activists who don't adhere to a vegan diet.  I'm vegan because it's relatively easy for me to abstain from something so that I can live with my conscience (primarily a selfish reason).  I actually do very little to better the lives of animals on a larger scale.  So on that score, the non-vegan activists are doing better than I am. 

Any reduction in consumption has a positive impact.

PS - Spell check wants to change "non-vegans" to Norwegians.  ;D
PPS - I don't even know why I'm here.  I swore I was going to stick to the "Lite" boards, but I'm home sick and I'm bored.